Template talk:History of Korea

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[edit] Wiman Joseon and Chinese commanderies

This template is excellent! Thanks for making it. I wonder if it might be a good idea to include two more periods between Gojoseon and Three Kingdoms, namely:

  1. Wiman Joseon and Jin
  2. Chinese commanderies and Samhan

(I'm still working on the latter two articles. Feel free to create them.)

Thoughts? -- Visviva 11:17, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)


In general, in the school textbook Wiman Josen and Jin(A Dynastiy of China) are not included as a historical period. And Wiman Joseon is one of controvercies, some people regard it as a period of Gojoseon.
Chinese commanderies was a temporal occupation, and they should be included in Chinese history, not in Korean history even though they placed in Korean peninsula. And at that times Goguryeo was developing, so we could see it is included in Three Kingdoms period. Samhan, too. What about linking those articles to Gojoseon and Three Kingdoms? -- Ryuch 12:17, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm... well, this does get pretty complicated. By Jin I was referring to Jin (Korean history), the shadowy state controlling the area south of the Han River during Wiman Joseon times. If Wiman Joseon is part of Gojoseon, then what do we do with Jin? Maybe nothing -- it isn't really very important. ... It seems a little problematic to consider Samhan as part of the Three Kingdoms period, although certainly the Three Kingdoms (especially Goguryeo) were beginning to develop during that time. The unique characteristics of the Three Kingdoms, such as rapid cultural advances and three-way power struggles, don't really emerge until the fourth century. The Daegu museum site refers to Samhan as the "Proto-Three-Kingdoms period" for that reason. [1] The Naver Encyclopedia, interestingly, also distinguishes Samhan from the Three Kingdoms, but treats Samhan as part of Korean prehistory. [2] ... I don't really understand why we should consider the Chinese commanderies to be purely Chinese history, any more than we would treat the Japanese occupation of Korea as purely Japanese history. Although Chinese-ruled, the commanderies were located on what is now indisputably Korean soil and were mostly populated by the same Korean people who had made up Gojoseon.
But as far as the template goes, I think you're right. For now, it's probably best to let it be. The template should be reserved for fairly clear-cut historical periods, making an exception for Gojoseon due to its exceptional notability. Given the complex and disputed nature of the earliest Korean history, the other pre-Three Kingdoms periods should be linked from articles, but not from the template. --Visviva 03:24, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for good comments. I did not major the history of Korea, but an amateur I am. I thought that the template would be better simple and clear. We could include other many short periods as well as the periods you mentioned. For example, Korean Empire. But I found that I think it's an extension of Joseon. But as you mentioned many other references sometimes include Samhan as a period. And Chinese commanderies are described under the period. Now I think it could be possible to add Samhan period between Gojoseon and Three Kingdoms. About Jin I was misunderstood, I thought it for Jin Danasty of China. I think we have two options one is Samhan, the other is pre-three kingdoms. The former would be good, because it includes specific names, but it also excludes the Chinese commanderies.
You asked if the 4 Chinese commandaries is not Korean History. I think it is. But for the period, we'd better put it to Chinese history template if they want. And Now I think Samhan period could be the priod to desribe those commanderies. -- Ryuch 14:39, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 'from the Korean point of view' deleted

It's not so nice to write the comment about the template on itself. You'd better talk about in this discussion page. What's is Korean's view and what is the NPOV? --Ryuch 10:23, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese occupation (1900-1950) period

Years instenad of the name of the period, it's strange. It's a shame for Korean, but we usually call it 일제시대(일정시대), which means Japanese occupation period. I revert. -- Cheol 7 July 2005 05:41 (UTC)

Oops. I didn't realize that was you, good Mr Cheol... Feel free to re-revert me. However, if we're going to keep "Japanese occupation" as the name in this template, we should also change the name of the relevant article, which currently is History of Korea (1900-1950). I'm not sure whether that's a good idea or not... -- Visviva 7 July 2005 15:55 (UTC)

[edit] .


History of Korea
Image:Logo-19.jpg
Ancient Korea
Gojoseon Jin
Dangun Joseon
Gija Joseon
Wiman Joseon
Proto‑Three Kingdoms Period
Buyeo Samhan
Three Kingdoms Period
Goguryeo Baekje Silla
North‑South States Period
Balhae Unified Silla
Later Three Kingdoms
Goryeo
Joseon
Korean Empire
Japanese occupation
Modern Korea
Divided Korea
South Korea North Korea

I don't think Dangun Joseon, Gija Joseon and Wiman Joseon belongs in the timeline as separate entries. Dangun Joseon just goes to Gojoseon, and Gija and Wiman are covered as controversies in the Gojoseon article. The three separate ideas are not widely accepted by modern scholars in Korea or the west. There is a lot of uncertainty about Gojoseon, and not enough agreement on the details to put it so prominently. PlacidoQ 01:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm planning on creating a seperate article for Dangun Joseon. The term is used by history scholars, even Korean history scholars. And the fact that Gija Joseon and Wiman Josean are controversial does not mean they don't belong on the navigational menu. There is certainly no concensus on the two - otherwise they would not be controversial. And really, the fact that they are controversial, to me, is just more of an argument to include them on the menu because the articles contain useful information. Also, I want to add, the Korean version of this template has those three periods listed. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

There's already an article on Dangun. I don't know why you would need different articles on Dangun, Dangun Joseon, and Gojoseon.

If being controversial is the reason, you should also include Hwanguk and Baedalguk, which are even more controversial. But then the list would not be a general guide to basic Korean history articles, but a collection of all kinds of speculations and theories.

The Korean Wikipedia is very undeveloped, because of the popularity of a similar types of services at Korean portal sites. It should not be taken as a guide to the popular or scholarly consensus. Many basic articles haven't even been created. Just take a look at their History of Korea article. PlacidoQ 06:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I did a little research online and there might not be enough sources to an article on Dangun Joseon itself, and I do see that it's often used as just another name for Gojoseon. So I'll probably not try to create an article specifically on Dangun Joseon.
The fact that the Korean WP is very undeveloped yet it still has Gija Joseon and Wiman Joseon on their version of the template just means that the English WP, being more developed, should have the two listed on the menu. And I'm perfectly OK with listing Hwanguk and Baedalguk as well. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] + Jeulmun and Mumun Periods

Excuse me, but I added Jeulmun Pottery Period and Mumun Pottery Period. Please be reminded that both of these periods are classified as proper nouns and so should remain capitalised. Mumun 無文 12:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] rationale for bolded and non-bolded text

Hi, I was wondering about why some periods/ages are bolded and some are not. It looks to me that long, long periods of time are bolded, no? If so, both Jeulmun and Mumun fit the criteria for bolding. However, doesn't anyone think that the bolding of Jeulmun and Mumun makes the template appear 'top heavy' and thus look slightly undesirable? Would it not be better to have these two links, and possibly Go Joseon, without bolding? Comments? Mumun 無文 12:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The "BETA" Version of the New History of Korea Template

History of Korea History of Korea
Jeulmun Period
Mumun Period
Gojoseon
Jin
Proto-Three Kingdoms
Buyeo Okjeo
Dongye Mahan
Byeonhan Jinhan
Three Kingdoms
Goguryeo Baekje
Silla Gaya
North-South States
Silla
676-936 AD		 Balhae
698-926 AD
Later Three Kingdoms
Goryeo
Khitan Wars
Mongol Invasions
Joseon
Japanese Invasions
Manchu Invasions
Korean Empire
Japanese Occupation
Provisional Government
Division of Korea
Korean War
North Korea South Korea

Timeline
List of monarchs
Military history
Naval history
Korea Portal
"Copyright" 2007 User:Amphitere (and some credits to User:Korea history)

Please leave comments on ways to improve this new template.

I made some changes - removed unnecessary styles; smaller image; larger font size; no need to bold everything; put North Korea and South Korea side by side; centered misc. section and put Timeline first.
I didn't change the background colours, but I think we need to change them.
Looks good. But I doubt this template can be copyrighted by anyone. It is long: could we shorten it by doubling up some of the specific Proto-Three Kingdoms so that they appear on on line? For example, Buyeo and Okjeo, Dongye and Mahan, Byeon and Jin? Mumun 無文 11:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks better now...it uses space more effectively...Mumun 無文 12:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I like this template better than the one being used now, that ones too big. Was there a discussion on this before? Because I seemed to have missed a chunk of it. Good friend100 03:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Is there some other place people are discussing the major change to this template? I liked the older slimmer version, it was more complete, visually simpler and easier to navigate. I wouldn't mind some color, but I would like to keep the list as before. Esroh 23:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Is there some way to get the template to float under an infobox?. Articles like Later Three Kingdoms look terrible. PC78 15:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Agree that there seems to be a problem with how the template is placed in almost every single article related to KorHist. 70.53.129.40 17:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I changed back to the old version (last edited by Kusonose) for now, because Kfc1864's change was too drastic. It lost too many links, has too many colors, and was too wide, among other technical problems. The one on the right is incorrect or misleading in a few areas. I would like to see the old version improved with subtle 2- or 3-tone coloring, and reduced in size a little bit without losing information. Just my own opinion. Esroh 22:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I still like this template, the one used right now is too big and too similiar to the chinese one and also confusing. Good friend100 00:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
'kay. I'll fix it.Kfc1864 talk my edits 06:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

There are problems with the existing template, but could we please have some discussion before a new IP address completely replaces it? Some of the problems I see with 221.138.73.61's design are: the inclusion of Hwanin/Hwanung myth, inclusion of state and person(Dangun/Gojoseon), inconsistent use of collective names (Samhan and individual Hans, but not Three Kingdoms), Provisional Gov't listed before Japanese rule, and so on. As stated before, I also think it's too garish and too wide, but that's my subjective view. Esroh 23:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not very good at Wiki markup, but here are some ideas and questions to improve the existing version:

  • Only major periods should be bolded. I think the major periods are Gojoseon, 3K, N-S States, Goryeo, Joseon, and N-S Korea, but others may have different ideas.
  • Events (invasions, wars) should be italicized, to distinguish them from states/periods.
  • Add two or three shades tastefully, without turning it into some pastel rainbow.
  • Some links may be made even smaller, but I don't know how to do it (such as the Ma/Byeon/Jin, Taebong/Hubaekje, various invasions, Division of Korea, Military/Naval history links)
  • Is Korean Empire a continuation of Joseon, or a new state/period?
  • Is Japanese rule a new state/period, or an event, like Mongol rule of Goryeo?
  • Is the Provisional Government a successor to Joseon/Korean Empire? I think only South Korea thinks so, is that enough?
  • Should Division of Korea be in the template?
  • Should Korean War be placed after N-S Koreas?
  • Do we need a link to Naval History? Or even Military History?

Let's discuss these things, before just completely replacing the existing one. Esroh 00:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Joseon covers the period of Korean empire, Jap.'s occupation, and provisional gov. --Cheol (talk) 06:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)