Talk:History of the harpsichord

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Contents 1 Startup 2 Not derived from the cymbalum 3 Use in popular music 4 Poor old italians? 5 Cembalo's edits 6 Edits revised

[edit] Startup

I've made this a satellite article of Harpsichord. Since some of the Talk for that article is relevant here, I'm pasting it in below. Opus33 16:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not derived from the cymbalum

I'm moved this passage to the talk page:

In most European languages, the word for "harpsichord" is some variation of clavicembalo (Latin clavis "key" + cymbalum, an instrument similar to the psaltery). This word is also occasionally used in English, sometimes in the form clavicymbal or clavisymbal.

If you look at cymbalum, you'll find it says that it is a folk instrument of Eastern Europe. I have never seen it said anywhere that the harpsichord originates from the cymbalum, and I'd be very reluctant to put this in the Wikipedia without citing a reference source.

This edit, by Keenan Pepper, apparently derives from a wish to delete a former stub article on clavicembalo that merely defined what it is and redirected to harpsichord. But my impression is that clavicembalo is virtually never used in English. We don't normally provide a list of foreign synonyms (i.e. we don't include "pomme" in Apple or "uva" in Grape)), so it's not clear we should be discussing it at all.

I would also suggest that any further editing on this point be preceded by consultation of reference sources.

Opus33 17:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)\

My dictionary says that cembalo is derived from 'cymbalum (latin) from 'kymbalon (greek) from 'kymbe: ("container"). The harpsichord may well be derived from the cymbalum as it was an antique instrument, made as a container with strings attached to it. The strings were plucked by fingers. The instrument is depicted on several medieval paintings. See http://baptitou.free.fr/Estella/cymbalum/Index.htm . The folk instrument and the harpsichord have probably nothing in common, except that they both are derived from the medieval cymbalum. 80.164.17.212 22:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC) E Kristiansen

[edit] Use in popular music

I added a brief note on the harpsichord's recent use by session musicuan Larry Knetchel. As Peter Isotalo said above, "It's always nice to have some connection to modern popular music." Since millions of people were introduced to the harpsichord by Knetchel's work, I would appreciate it if my reference to him were not vandalized again. Cranston Lamont 05:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poor old italians?

The article gives the impression that Italian harpsi's went nowhere, either historically or musically after the Renaissance - can this be right? And as for being 'considered pleasing but unspectacular' ... by who, please, and why should we take that opinion seriously? Was Frescobaldi chopped liver?

While it reads nicely to have a grand narrative of the 'development' of the harpsichord moving from Italy to Flanders to France and England, this is obtained at the cost of throwing away at least three-quarters of history, for example what happened in the Netherlands after Ruckers, or in France before the ravalements happened, or in Spain or Germany at any point at all ;-)

... and what's with Baroque harpsichord composers being numerous in "Italy, Germany and, above all, France"? Has anyone counted 'em? --Tdent 16:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Tdent, I wrote this long ago and herely list my source. It's Frank Hubbard (cited in article) who says those things about Italian harpsichords; I don't think he meant to imply that Frescobaldi was chopped liver. The "grand narrative" comes straight out of the chapter organization of Hubbard's book, though the original is more nuanced than the summary.

For work on more advanced Italian harpsichords, I have found the papers by Grant O'Brien to be very intriguing: http://www.claviantica.com/.

It's clear that we need more than just the outline history we have now, and I hope there are people with professional level expertise who can take this on. I am just a Hubbard fan/channeler.

Whatever gets changed, however, will involve major organizational problems, keep all those traditions straight. I believe that daughter articles linked from the main article would be the best approach. Cheers, Opus33 17:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cembalo's edits

I'm quite concerned with the edits that Cembalo has been putting in this article. I judge that they are very much in violation of the policy posted at Wikipedia:NPOV, and also that since they are not including any reference sources, they violate Wikipedia:Verifiability. Opus33 23:11, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits revised

My contributions to the German harpsichord section have now been revised, both to be in compliance with a neutral point of view and to be verifiable. The stipulation regarding the presence of a German harpsichord design in Frank Hubbard's book can be verified easily. It is more difficult to trace the entire output of Hubbard, Dowd, and their followers, but the stipulation that this group of builders made few German-style harpsichords seems hardly in question. I would doubt that anyone would seriously dispute that assertion. The stipulations regarding the increasing use of harpsichords of German Baroque design by leading harpsichordists (Staier, Hill, Parmentier, and others) can be verified by looking at the World's Encyclopedia of Recorded Music, Supplement. I would argue that these performers are "leading" on the basis of the prominent lables for which they record, the extent of their record sales, and their importance in discussions of new directions in harpsichord performance in the major trade magazines (Goldberg, Early Music, etc.).