Talk:History of the Papacy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Catholicism Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, which collaborates on articles related to the Roman Catholic Church. To participate, edit this article or visit the project page for details.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the Project's importance scale.

Copied from the Talk page on Popes.

The status of Italy can be roughly divided into eras:

  • Imperial era 42-395,
  • Western Imperial Era 395-476,
  • Herulian era 476-491,
  • Ostrogothic era 491-553,
  • Byzantine Era 553-751,
  • Lombard Era 751-756,
  • 1st Era of the Papal States 756-1309 (vacant 1268-71),
  • Avignon Era (the "Babylonian Captivity") 1309-1377,
  • 2nd Era of the Papal States 1377-1798,
  • Napoleonic interruptions 1798-1814,
  • 3rd Era of the Papal States 1814-1870,
  • Savoyard Era 1870-1929,
  • Vatican Era 1929-.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_curiosities"


I know it is a very bald stub at the moment - but my knowledge of the subject is limited. Jackiespeel 16:50, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


If the text becomes sufficiently long, the various sections could be separated out, with Avignon Papacy and History of the Vatican City as subpages. Jackiespeel 16:13, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

To me, it doesn't make sense that this article redirects to History of the Vatican City. Perhaps that article should be linked from here, but not redirected. The history of the papacy is way bigger than the Vatican era, as you can see from above. I hope no one is offended when I remove this redirect. D. F. Schmidt 22:06, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Improvement

I have begun improving the article, starting with a bit about Simon Peter. Now is not the best time to be working on Wikipedia, however, so I expect to be developing this article more tomorrow. Thank goodness tomorrow is Friday! ★MESSEDROCKER★ 03:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Areas of this article which need further expansion

I have embarked on a major expansion of the this article which was just a stub before I started working on it yesterday. I have attempted to keep the focus of the article on the history of the Papacy and NOT on the history of the Catholic church. This is, of course, a very difficult distinction to maintain since the histories of the Papacy and the Church are so closely intertwined. What I've been trying to do is to leave out anything that is more about the Church but not really that relevant to the Papacy. It seems to me, for example, that the work of most missionaries is an important part of the Church's history but not as important a part of the history of the Papacy. For this reason, I have left those out.

I seek your help in making these kinds of distinctions. I have, for the time being, left out the Crusades, the Inquisition and the Reformation. I am trying to decide how relevant these are to the history of the Papacy. They are, obviously, very important to the history of the Church. What should be said about these topics in this article? Your thoughts on this question would be much appreciated.

I have also left out most of the 20th century because I ran out of steam. I plan to write something about the relationship of Pius XII to Hitler and Mussolini. The role of John XXIII in convening Vatican II is also important. I also plan to write something about the relationship of John Paul II to the Polish Communist government and his role in helping bring an end to Communist domination of Eastern Europe. His role in reversing the modernist trend in the church is also important to document. Have I left anything out?

--Richard 17:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Donation of Constantine

I think there are some points for us to consider here. My understanding is that the text was forged by a cleric who thought that it would help the papacy in establishing temporal authority against emperors. I don't think there is any evidence that it was actually commissioned by the papacy (which found out it was a forgery when everyone else did), and in some ways it was rather unwanted, or at the least it was a two edged sword. On the one hand, it established legal grounds for the pope's temporal domains. However, the papacy wanted to content that its authority came from God and St. Peter. However, if temporal authority instead derived from an emperor, then it meant that a subsequent emperor could possibly have the jurisdiction to take it away, or at the least it further imperial claims that the emperor was hieratically above the pope (at least temporally). So it was a more problematic document than the current text explains, if (of course) my understanding is correct. Lostcaesar 19:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for a task force on the History of Christianity

I have proposed a History task force on Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/General which would cover this article among others. Please read the proposal, comment on it and consider joining. --Richard 17:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Christianity, Astrology And Myth', Wright, Larry, (further reading)

Ref. 'Further Reading'.The book in question is essentially the text of my MA thesis entitled, 'Pagan Ritual And Myth, In The Early Christian Church'. It does indeed cover many aspects of the Jesus Myth, Christian festival et al...As an example, the first eight chapters are headed: (1)Rebirth of a Myth, (2)Christianity And The Sun God, (3)The Dying And Resurrected Saviour God,(4)Stars And Their Portents, (5)The Virgin Mother Of The World, (6)The Cave And Stable Myth, (7)Slaughter Of The Innocents, (8)Miracles...................etc. There are 16 chapters, 230pp, inc' Bibliography, and Index.Larry Wright, 28/03/07

[edit] Leo the Great

This section consists essentially of cut and pastes with minor changes from the following url: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac65. The use of this material should be acknowledged. I am a novice here so don't know the etiquette. Should this be corrected by the original author?

Here's the language from the original source of the material for comparison:

"The first pope to indicate the real potential of the papacy is Leo I . . .With the collapse of imperial authority in the western empire, as Visigoths, Vandals and Huns move around almost at will, the papacy finds itself well placed to take a lead in temporal affairs. Ambrose in Milan has already demonstrated how a bishop can exert spiritual authority over an emperor. During Leo's pontificate Rome is threatened by Attila the Hun (in 452) and Gaiseric the Vandal (455). He negotiates with both, and is traditionally credited with persuading Attila to turn back short of Rome and with convincing Gaiseric that the city should not be utterly destroyed. Whatever the exact truth of his achievement, his actions predict a broader role for the papacy." Rickrack (talk) 21:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)Rickrack

The section should be rewritten to present the relevant information without infringing on copyright. I don't have the time to do it right now so I've removed the offending copyright violation. --Richard (talk) 16:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)