Talk:History of the Middle East

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Talk:History of the Middle East/Archive1

Contents

[edit] Why no geography?

Without an introductory sentence describing the geographical area covered, this article is close to useless for many readers. There is controversy about the terms "Near East" and "Middle East" anyway. Near what? East of what? Itsmejudith 08:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

This question is discussed at length at Middle East. Adam 09:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, thank you Adam. Yes, it is discussed at great length (probably too great length) there. I have added a sentence to direct back to it. I did find it initially very confusing. I still think there is a lot of clearing up to be done about the whole group of articles related to the history of this area. The story of the rise of Islam, establishment of the Ottoman Empire, etc. is told many times, each with variations.Itsmejudith 20:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. If you look at the archived Talk for this page, you will see that we had a long battle with a particularly annoying editor (a teenager who thought he knew everything) about this matter (and others), which led to a lot of unnecessary material being added both to this article and to Middle East. Now that he has either gone or grown up, both articles could use a clean-up. Adam 00:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] betrayed

"the Arabs found they had been betrayed, indeed doubly betrayed"
This needs to explained. I think that the British had always been open about their intention to distinguish between areas of the middle east that were clearly arab and other areas that were not. There may have been arabs who felt betrayed, but it is not clear that their expectations for post-WWI political boundaries were realistic. Can Wikipedia flatly say that they were betrayed? If so, the specifics need to be cited. --JWSchmidt 18:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Ted Thornton website


I changed to "Arabs felt betrayed" and moved down the diputed neutrality sign. Dan Gluck 20:19, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


It clearly states why the Arabs felt betrayed, the British and the French signed secret treaties that went against what they had promised the Arabs and they also hadn’t disclosed their full intentions in creating a sovereign state of Israel. The West has to take some form of acknowledgement when it comes down to these conflicts in the Middle East, if they want to have any credibility.


Indeed, there is little neutrality in this article, like in the The Ancient Middle East section which stresses the Arabian control of the region and diminishes the other reigns. "the early Arabs, [...] appeared around 800 B.C and established powerful and influential civilizations that were the center of trade for centuries, in the heart of the desert" I hope you see my point. Nefzen 17:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV at risk

"The advent of a new western army of occupation in a Middle Eastern capital marked a turning point in the history of the region. If the U.S. succeeded in transforming Iraq into a prosperous and stable democratic state, the consequences for the region might be great. The consequences of failure would also be very far-reaching. Political progress in Iraq was slower than expected, and was complicated by an ongoing Iraq insurgency, but successful elections were held in January 2005 and power transferred to a Shia-dominated elected government."

This seem slightly POV/"if, if, if" to anyone?--WaltCip 00:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

It is also rather out of date and can probably be deleted. Adam 02:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I've given it a really quick update. It's not a very optimistic picture, but it's factual and neutral. Clarke


Umm, why no mention of the Hussein-McMahon correspondence which is the basis for the "felt betrayed" line that was mentioned above?

[edit] Lebanon '06?

Shouldn't there be some mention of Israel's war in Lebanon against Hezbollah in 2006? The list of Arab-Israeli wars ends in 1982. The 2006 war was pretty big... longer than the others, also.

I have added a short paragraph about the 2006 conflict, but there is a separate larger article already existing 2006 Israel-Lebanon Conflict. Bencgibbins 14:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too difficult?

I reverted a comment made by an anon who found the page too difficult. S/he may have a point. Itsmejudith 11:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Update?

This page really needs to be updated. Either remove the last part about Iraq and the US and provide a link to the "War on Terror" article or update it with current events. The article makes it seem like the problems in the Middle East are atarting to resolve with lines like:

"Political progress in Iraq was slower than expected...but successful elections were held in January 2005 and power transferred to a Shia-dominated elected government"

convey that all is well in Iraq. Meanwhile the Iraqi parliament has petitioned for the US to leave Iraq and the US congress is doing the same. All is not well and this article is misleading. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.169.45.251 (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Indeed, the entire article is rather misleading. Just look at this:
"in 642 after they defeated the Romans at the Battle of Yarmuk, which is considered by many historians to be the most important battle of all time." Nefzen 11:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Map

why doent the map have Iran as part of the Middle East. Last time i checked it was a middle Eastern country —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.227.139 (talk) 17:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Some people think of Iran as in Asia... WhisperToMe 22:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transliteration needs to be standardised

Throughout the article, various transliterations of many Arabic terms are used (e.g. "Hezbollah", "Hizbullah") with no explanation. This is confusing. Only one transliteration should be used consistently for each term, with other common transliterations mentioned in brackets after the term is first introduced.

For continuity, all the Arabic terms should be transliterated similarly, meaning that if we use "Hizbullah" as the standard, we should also use 'Muhammad' rather than 'Mohammed'. The short 'e' and 'o' vowel sounds as we use them in English do not exist in Arabic, so it could be argued that "Hizbullah" is preferable to "Hezbollah". Raylin (talk) 10:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Agree that consistency is important. There is also policy to use names recognisable to readers of English. Articles relating to the Islamic Prophet use Muhammad and I believe that is a policy of the Islam Wikiproject. "Hezbollah" is the most usual form of that name in English, so there is a case for using it even if on this occasion we are not consistent with other transliterations. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ataturk "emancipated women" did he?

"Meanwhile, the fall of the Ottomans had allowed Kemal Atatürk to seize power in Turkey and embark on a program of modernisation and secularisation. He abolished the caliphate, emancipated women enforced western dress..."

I hesitate to agree that emancipate is the correct terminology... the pendulum swung the other way entirely, and "emancipated" is entirely at odds with what comes after it - "enforced western dress". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.212.51 (talk) 03:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)