Talk:History of the Italian Republic

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Contents

[edit] Links to "Gladio"

..can you say "conspiracy theory"? That the Ordine Nuovo attacks were perpetrated by neofascists who tried to pin them to the communist party, does not make this a covert CIA operation. Until you present some proof to the opposite (not including the 30-year old Soviet forgery of the non-existant "supplement B" to the Field Manual 30-31), allegations about Gladio connections with Ordine Nuovo are just hot air. 193.92.81.11 00:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Please refer to Wikipedia:NPOV dispute: "Then, under this new section, clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why. Make some suggestions as to how one can improve the article. Be active and bold in improving the article." The US State disclaimer you have put totally admits on the existence of Gladio, it only denies two assassinations in Greece and a military manual. Now, I'm sure you will understand why the US State Dept is not exactly the most neutral source for this kind of stuff. I advise you to read or find someone to translate you this [1] Repubblica article which back-up claims in this article. It is a well known historical fact, proven by investigation by judge Felice Casson and others, that Gladio has engaged in false flag attacks in Italy. I don't know exactly what you mean by a "conspiracy theory", because I don't think that Italian victims of the Piazza Fontana bombing or the 1980 Bologna massacre think it's "just a theory". The Repubblica link that is provided here and in the main-text of the article also give links to the Italian Commission on Terrorism report and the original juridical sentences. You may also consulte these documents. CQFD. Tazmaniacs 14:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The following is a corroboration of some edits made by and provided by User:Turrican:

Most of the material is from the book "Killing Hope" by William Blum.

The ten million letters:

  • New York Times, 16 March to 18 April 1948
  • Howard K. Smith, pp.198-219
  • W.E. Daughterty and M. Janowitz "A Psychological Warfare Casebook", pp. 319-26
  • Holdt and van de Velde, pp. 159-205
  • E.E. Martinez and E.A. Suchman, "Letters from America and the 1948 Elections in Italy", The Public Opinion Quarterly (Princeton University), Spring 1950, pp. 111-25

The forgery of PCI letters:

  • CIA memorandum to the Forty Committee, published in CIA - the Pike Report, pp. 204-205

The CIA financial support for the DC:

  • "The CIA" by Stephen Goode, p. 45, and "The Armies of Ignorance: The Rise of the American Intelligence Empire" by William R. Corson, pp. 298-9

[edit] Conspiracy theories

From this page, it seems that most of the history of the Italian Republic was a conspiracy. While I agree that there are still a lot of unsolved episodes and mysteries, this is totally unbalanced as well as, frankly, ridiculous and unworthy of wikipedia.Giordaano 13:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I repeat : this page is ridiculous. 60 years of Italian history seem to consist only of Tazmaniac's pet theories about Gladio. No economy, no culture, no social developments. Conspiracies, secret agents, false flag attacks. The page, as it is, is hopeless. (Giordaano, 13 May 2007)

It sounds more like a PCI history of the Italian Republic. Historical compromise? This was an issue that was very important to the PCI itself (which was actually factionalized on this issue; not necessarily a bad thing), not to the history of the Italian Republic. Intangible2.0 23:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

This article didn't even mention Alcide De Gasperi (I have introduced his name, at least; a couple of paragraphs on his political action would be a minimum). On the other hand, people like Negri, Scalzone etc etc are quoted repeatedly. This, is, of course, ridiculous.Giordaano 11:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the entire article warrants the WP:NPOV tag that I have placed above it because it should deal with the history of the entire nation of Italy after 1945 and not just almost exclusively with political violence (eg it mentiones Italy's membership of the EU, of which it is a founding member, only in passing). Wikimam 02:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biased POV in 1948 elections

Quote The 1948 general election was influenced by the United States as part of their ongoing effort to fight communism ... The PCI itself was accused of being funded by Moscow and the Cominform

Without quoting any sources this article states that the US influenced the 1948 Italian elections and that the CIA accused the PCI of being funded by Moscow. I am not knowledgeable enough about postwar Italy but this piece about the Marshall plan and many other sources say that the PCI was funded by Stalin to the tune of some 10 million US$ a month - in its rendering and omission this article is clearly not NPOV

"No Communist party outside the Soviet bloc depended more on Soviet funding over the years than the PCI did." Riva, Valerio. Oro da Mosca: i finanziamenti sovietici al PCI dalla Rivoluzione d'ottobre al crollo dell'URSS.

The same lack of NPOV is evident in related articles such as the one about Palmiro_Togliatti Wikimam 03:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Since no action was undertaken I have taken the liberty of changing the 3rd paragraph dealing with the Italian elections of March 1948 to be more balanced and I also quoted a few sources some of which do need further verification; The claim that Moscow funded the PCI for $10m a month (more than 100 million United_States_dollar in todays dollars) is made by a CIA agent and a reporter and I don't consider these sources strong enough to quote them in the text. I've also replaced the reference to the Czechoslovak coup from the 4th to the 3rd paragraph and added the months of the coup, the NSA document and the elections to illustrate the timing of events and the very short time window under which these events played out sequentially. Since this wikipedia item deals with arguably the very fist cold war election, the first NSA act and the first covert CIA action I think it deserves more attention than I can give it. and certainly more than it has received previously. Wikimam 07:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This page is ridiculous

OK, I will repeat it: this page is ridiculous. 60 years of Italian history seem to consist only of someone's pet theories about Gladio. No economy, no culture, no social developments. Conspiracies, secret agents, false flag attacks. The page, as it is, is hopeless.

It would be better to delete it, and open a special chapter under "conspiracies".Giordaano 11:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)