Talk:History of roller derby

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[edit] About this article

The History of roller derby article was created by kencf0618 on October 31, 2007 in order to reduce the size of the main roller derby article. The content of the main article's History section was moved here and replaced with a summary and pointer.

On May 26, 2008, mjb created this Discussion page and moved the old History section-related threads here from Talk:Roller derby). —mjb (talk) 16:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Texas leagues

It would be nice to have a bit of info on the original Texas leagues in the current revival so that the reader can understand how roller derby's current revival got started. When and where did they start, and why? Who was the first, and how did they end up splitting into multiple leagues? How long were they operating before leagues outside of Texas started popping up? etc. — mjb 20:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

This is chronicled in the docufilm "Hell on Wheels" which premiered at the Austin SXSW film festival. BGGW formed in 2001 and began putting on the first all-female roller derby events in history. BGGW predicates all other women's roller derby. Within a short period of time BGGW (bad girls, good women) split and became TXRD and TXRG due to philosophical differences on how the league was to be managed. TXRD then became a banked track league known as the Lonestar Rollergirls, and retained all the intellectual property of the formerly incorporated BGGW league. TXRG Texas Rollergirls continued as a flat track league, and is the origin of WFTDA to this date. Please contact me about this stuff so we can talk if necessary. Let me know and I'll send you my number. Freeskate 16:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section headings

User:Keithcop (Keith Coppage, author of Roller Derby to RollerJam, I'm guessing), changed the section heading "Success and failure" to "Jam On, Jam Off". Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), section headings should only use initial caps, so "Jam on, jam off" would be better. We also try to keep things "encyclopedic" ("dry", if you prefer), so I am hesitant to encourage dramatic or clever headings that would be like those seen in magazine articles. That said, perhaps "Success and failure" is not much better as a title for that section. Suggestions? —mjb 20:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I think "Success and failure" sounds much more encyclopedia-like. --Marumari 13:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent deletions

Keithcop also made the following deletions:

  • At one point, Roller Derby could be seen on all three U.S. networks (CBS, ABC, and NBC), several times a week.

This was reduced to just ABC instead of all 3. My source for the claim of three networks was http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06081/674316.stm which says it explicitly. I also see that http://www.toad.net/~andrews/Toughie.htm says that in the 1960s, "Frank Deford, writing for Sports Illustrated, noted that at one point in the '50s all three networks were vying to televise Roller Derby live." I don't know if "vying to televise" means the same thing as "were televising" (I'd think it doesn't), but still, are you certain it was only ABC that was broadcasting games?

  • the L.A. Braves debuted before 60,000 fans at the Rose Bowl

The number of fans was removed. I got this number from an LA Times article reprinted at http://www.rollerderbypreservationassociation.com/modules.php?name=JLF_Newspaper_Articles&op=ShowNewspaperInfo&id=7&id_cat=3 … so, why was it removed?

  • Not to be outdone, Roller Derby also formed its own International Roller Derby League (IRDL) which included its most famous teams, the Bay Bombers, Midwest Pioneers, and Jolters, among others.

This was completely removed, resulting in an orphaned reference to the IRDL as the source of some of Roller Games skaters in its final years, and no explanation of the IRDL's existence whatsoever. What gives?

  • Cultural historian Paul Fussell attributed the collapse to the declining economic class of its fan base in its final years

I fully cited a source for this claim (the claim that Fussell provided that explanation), and Fussell is a notable, respected author in the subject of culture, class and economics. Its deletion also left a hanging reference in a preceding sentence. I've restored the text for now. I'd like to be able to provide more explanations for the 1973 shutdown of Roller Derby, though, so please, if you have other references we can cite, let's add them.

  • Seltzer sold Roller Derby promotional rights to Roller Games

My source for this claim was http://web.archive.org/web/20030728071050/www.rollersport.us/history4.cfm, which is still cited elsewhere in the article. I didn't really know how to interpret the claim, but I don't know why it was deleted, either. Please explain.

  • Roller Games disbanded Roller Derby's IRDL and its own NRL

This is based on the info at http://www.rollerderbypreservationassociation.com/modules.php?name=Leagues&op=ShowLeagueAll&id=179&id_cat=32&categories=ROLLERGAMES, which reprints a Roller Games publication explaining all the league changes that were being made in 1974. Perhaps its reference to the IRDL only meant to say that the IRDL ceased to exist when Roller Derby was shut down, but still, I don't see why the information was deleted, especially considering there'd be no explanation of what happened to them otherwise.

  • Initially the [IRSL] was the International Roller Derby League (IRDL) [but was bought and renamed by Dave Lipschultz to] the IRSL.

My source for this claim is http://web.archive.org/web/20031010191816/http://www.rollersport.us/history5.cfm … please explain the change.

  • In 1985, ESPN began televising IRSL bouts alongside professional wrestling in a programming block billed as "Slams & Jams"

My source for this claim was that Post-Gazette article, http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06081/674316.stm … why was it deleted?

  • In 1986, the ESPN contract was transferred to the IRSL spinoff RollerMania (named after WrestleMania)

My source for this claim is http://web.archive.org/web/20031010191816/http://www.rollersport.us/history5.cfm … is it wrong?

I went to a lot of trouble to find all those sources, so I need some explanations of the deletions, preferably with more authoritative sources cited, or I'll revert them. If there are contradictory accounts of the sport's history, then we need to document that fact, not just favor one over the other. —mjb 21:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Another set of unexplained edits was made today by the same user. Some of the new info is useful, but the Fussell quote was again deleted with no explanation, and a few changes conflict with cited sources. Keithcop, please explain your edits. —mjb 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

What is the status of this deleted information? Freeskate 17:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
It's still gone, except for the Fussell quote, which I recently restored at the bottom of the "Jam On, Jam Off" section. My sources could contain errors; I have no way of knowing. Roller derby press isn't exactly scholarly. I'd like to find a way to incorporate all points of view and acknowledge that there's conflict, until more reliable secondary sources can be found. —mjb 19:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Ack. It's unfortunate that the folks you'd expect to be authoritative would give an unbiased view of the sport's history instead only want to parlay over 'pro v.s. am' and give little mention of the (now dominant) all-female revival.Freeskate 20:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roller Derby born out of track racing?

It is my understanding that Roller Derby came in to popularity as track bicycle racing was dying out. Is it possible that velodrome owners moved to promoting Roller Derby? Is this something that is worth mentioning?

Thanks, Therobotbuilder 01:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be worth mentioning if it were mentioned in a reasonably well-researched publication somewhere. mjb 05:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)