Talk:History of radar

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"Pulse radar is the only way to detect the location, size, and velocity of objects"

This is not true. The velocity of an object can be measured with a CW radar.

Contents

[edit] Cleanup

I hate to randomly put a cleanup tag on a page I find, but this article really seems to need it. There's good information in it – although I think the very brief mention of the MIT RadLab should be expanded – but it's stylistically bad, and the mass of headings and subheadings seem illogical and haphazard. –Joke137 18:41, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Naval Research Laboratory

Engineer Bob, Are you sure about the claim that the 1930 observation by Taylor and Young was the first demo of CW interference radar? I remember reading that similar observations of aircraft reflecting signals were known in England well before the 1935 demo by Watson-Watt and Wilkins, and in fact lead to them suggesting their radar experiment. But I do not know the exact date, or whether it predates the the Taylor and Young observation. I will dig around and see if I can find the reference again. -- Op. Deo 09:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

  • The Taylor/Young observations were made in 1922; 1930 was Hyland's detection of an aircraft. Robert M. Page credits Taylor & Young with the accidental discovery of radar in his 1979 book The Origin of Radar, which is consistent with information on the IEEE and NRL websites. Engineer Bob 10:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I carelessly misread the wrong date in the article, and jumped to quite the wrong conclusion. I am not familiar with the Page book - I will go and read it. All I can add further is that what may be regarded as the first actual use of CW radar was by Appleton and Barnett in 1924, see Appleton Nobel prize lecture, when they measured the 90 km height of the E-Layer. -- Op. Deo 12:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Battle of the Beams

At the start of World War II both the United Kingdom and Nazi Germany knew of each other's ongoing efforts in their "battle of the beams".

This term is normally used for the various systems used by the Germans to direct their bombers (Lorenz, Knickebein, X-Gerat, Y-Gerat etc) and the British countermeasures like meacons, rather than radar.
The link takes to a page about Knickebein etc with nothing about radar. I think a better phrase should be substituted here. --jmb 00:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah.. but I think it was still an important part of the history of radar, when there was no real difference between ECM and meaconning, radars and navigation radio, amateur radio and ESM... Germ 00:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
The operation against the Knickenbein etc was completely separate. The phrase "Battle of the Beams" has a quite specific meaning that was nothing to do with radar. I don't understand the menion of "amateur radio and ESM" in this context. The Wiki page linked from the phrase is about the countermeasures to these systems like Knickebein. --jmb 07:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Radar and ROC Curves

A "Receiver Operating Characteristic Curve" or "ROC Curve" plots the true positive 'signal' rate against the false positive signal rate (signal to noise ratio). This concept is used frequently in biomedical research to characterize the quality of diagnostic tests. This method was reportedly developed during the early years of radar in attempting to measure the 'operating characteristics' of a given radar technician (eg their ability to sort 'friend' from 'foe' during the WWII use of radar in defending Britain from German bombing raids). Does anyone know whether there is truth to this and can you provide a reference?

[edit] Bad wording

"Watt quickly wrote back that this was unlikely, and he pointed out that in the absence of progess, 'meanwhile attention is being turned to the still difficult, but less unpromising, problem of radio detection and numerical considerations on the method of detection by reflected radio waves will be submitted when required."

Really bad wording, almost incoherent. Reword it please. 64.236.245.243 15:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Development in the Soviet Union in the 30's

I would like to draw your attention to the German WIKIPEDIA entries for RADAR in which the russian development are very well described. I could help if someone is going to translate it Jaypee1 10:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1900s

I am sure this entry is incomplete. In the distant past (so I cannot remember title or details) I read a technical paper on the early development of German radar. Its origin, in the early 1900s, was in experiments conducted in the Baltic for the German Navy, specifically on rangefinding, using a transmitter, a receiver, and (importantly) an early oscilloscope tube for timing the returned signal. That the echo was thus electronically timed shows that the experimenter's appreciation of the potential of radar was complete. The importance of these trials was increased by a lucky accident. A Wright Flyer was being demonstrated at the same time as the radar ranging trials and a reflection from the aircraft as it passed over the target ship was observed on the tube. The significance and potential of this chance event was fully realised and noted at the time. Whether the experimenter was the Christian Huelsmeyer noted below I can not remember. If it was, the entry on his work seriously underestimates the sophistication of his apparatus, since it does not mention his use of an oscilliscope for echo timing and accurate rangefinding.

I also support Jaypeeel's comment above. The Russian Navy kept a close watch on all technology used by the German Navy, which was greatly admired, so although I have no references I would be very surprised if they failed to follow this lead.

What is really surprising is that the British Admiralty - who must have been aware of these developments - ignored them, because at that time the Rutherford Laboratory at Cambridge was well placed, in terms of equipment and scientists, to follow through and develop the German initative in radar technology.

Pfvlloyd 12:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)