Talk:History of nuclear weapons

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/Archive 1 - content from Nuclear Weapons Timeline, of unknown origin

Does anyone have any evidence that Pakistan has exploded a fusion (hydrogen) bomb? I can find references only to fission bombs. DJ Clayworth 18:35, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)


Roadrunner: Actually one of India's devices was thermonuclear. Initially I didn't think so either, but I checked and there are several references, e.g. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/india/nuke.htm DJ Clayworth 19:00, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)


Surely the Einstein Letter deserves a mention here. DJ Clayworth 19:22, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Absolutely. And Buckminster Fuller, who was the first to actually explain to Einstein how his theory implied the potential for an atom bomb. This was in the very early 30s apparently. There were a couple of prominent female physicists involved in Germany before the war, and then England, before the nuclear work was moved to the US (for security in case the UK was invaded). It was Leo Szilard and Edward Teller who prevailed on Einstein to write the letter, which he later regretted.

You got yourself a job. DJ Clayworth 19:44, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Hey, how about this for an ending sentence:

"Although the origins of nuclear weapons were originally shrouded in deep secrecy, it is fairly clear to most sane people how this history will end: with a *REALLY BIG BOOM* and then no sound at all. At least not that we hear."

Maveric, I removed your sentence:

US President Dwight D. Eisenhower then on October 30, 1953 formally approved the top secret document National Security Council Paper No. 162/2, which stated that the United States' arsenal of nuclear weapons must be maintained and expanded to counter the communist threat.

Not because I disagreed with it, but because in the place you put it, it implies that Eisenhower's document ended MAD, when in fact it was part of the doctrine (or predated it?). I added a sentence noting the arsenal increase through the cold war years. DJ Clayworth 18:27, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)



you might want to talk about how some scientists were intially worried about "atmospheric ignition", which somehow the nitrogen of the atmosphere would begin to burn due to an atomic blast and the entire world would be burned up. they made some calculations that showed this impossible, but you have to wonder what aws in the back of their mind at Trinity

They proved to themselves it wouldn't happen. see LA-602 online link and discussion at Manhattan project.

Therefore, not worth mentioning here.64.165.202.73 22:48, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] My plans for this article

I've been editing this article for a little while now, and I feel I ought to write down what I thought it ought to be lest I get hit by a bus or just never get around to finishing it. Basically, I want this to be a coherent chronological narrative (a "history"), not a collection of disconnected issues as it was before. I also would like if a number of color pictures were developed for each section which clearly show the main figures (Oppenheimer, Teller, etc.), main concepts (weapon design, fallout), and iconic images (first mushroom clouds, bombed Hiroshima), preferably in color where possible.

The narrative form I have in mind is:

  1. Pre-history (1930s physics and politics)
  2. World War II, creation and use
  3. International control debate, Russia get the bomb
  4. Hydrogen bomb debate, creation, implications
  5. Testing, MAD, new delivery mechanisms
  6. Detente, treaties, relaxations
  7. Star Wars, Reagan, "Cold War II"
  8. End of the Cold War: stockpiles, problems, questions
  9. Proliferation (will backtrack a bit), "war on terror", nuclear weapons in the Post-Cold War

This arrangement would make the article more chronologically accurate, thematically useful, and end it in a way which it would be easy to add further developments to (which are likely to take place in the area of proliferation more than anything else). I've already done the first five and will try to find the time to work on the others at some point, but it may have to wait until I have a substantial break (it takes me a number of hours to write each section from scratch). If anyone else wants to take a crack at this, or suggest alternative arrangements, I'm more than happy with that. --Fastfission 22:04, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like the article will be very interesting. I don't really have the writing talent or the organizational skills to be of much help, but I know a little about the subject and so I hope I'll be able to contribute extra detail here and there. I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head but I'll be reading eagerly as the article evolves! TomTheHand 04:09, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
I like this outline. I'm planning a parallel piece on the history of the UK nuclear weapons program. I'll be preparing it in collaboration with my mother, Lorna Arnold, author of the official history of the subject. Geoffarnold 14:08, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
This looks like a really thorough and useful article. But what about a mention of the widespread anti-nuclear movement in the eighties, especially in the United States? I've skimmed the top 30 results for "nuclear" on wikipedia and found next to no mention of this movement, except briefly under nuclear disarmament. mennonot 22:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree completely on this. There ought to be an entire article devoted to Public reactions to nuclear technology as well (I think separating the weapons and power reactions is somewhat difficult if not methodologically impossible -- they both often act as proxies for one another) which would trace reactions from the 1890s until the present (I know 1890s might feel a bit back but I think Spencer Weart made in good point in Nuclear fear to stress that much of the groundwork for the 20th century reactions was set in the 19th century reactions to the discovery of radium and x-rays and the like). So yes, I agree completely. (If I only had more time to work on this in depth!) --Fastfission 23:34, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
Might I suggest having it be 1 Prelude: Physics and politics in the 1930s; 2 From Los Alamos to Hiroshima; etc. instead of 1 History 1.1 Prelude: Physics and politics; 1.2 From Los Alamos to Hiroshima; etc.? I find it odd for there to be a topic called "History" in an article called "History of nuclear weapons.... --Snaxe920 01:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I think trhe article would benifit from removing some of the more emotional language, and adding data on arms reduciton and limitation talks. RIght now the US history seems to end with Reagan appearing to restart the cold war, and neglects both START and the fall of the USSR- events that occurred 20 years ago! 68.21.37.223 16:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gun triggered fission bomb

The picture of it is wrong A gun trigger bomb is a bit more complex than that I found a better description in the How Stuff Works book Dudtz 7/21/05

It isn't "wrong", it's just simplified. It isn't supposed to be an actual representation of the weapon used, it is just an illustration of a concept. And anyway, what makes you think the How Stuff Works book is correct anyway? Do you think they have access to secret blueprints? Gimme a break! --Fastfission 19:42, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Modern mini nukes?

I noticed there's no discussion about post cold-war development of (relatively) low yield bombs.

Well, it's not completed, yet, but beyond that, there hasn't been a lot of post cold-war development of relatively low yield bombs. Are you talking about the discussions as to whether things like the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator should be developed? (It has not been developed) Or are you talking about suitcase nukes (whose status is uncertain but unlikely)? Or something else? --Fastfission 12:04, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] error or not

In the section "Nuclear strategy and the knot of war," the second sentence doesn't seem to make sense. To wit:

> Throughout the 1950s and the early 1960s a number of trends were enacted between the U.S. and the USSR as they both endeavored in a tit-for-tat approach to disallow the other power from acquiring nuclear supremacy.

Should the word 'trends" be "treaties" ? Or is this talking about something else ?

I'm not sure what I meant there (I assume I wrote that) but treaties is not correct. I think I really just meant "different policies" but it's rather puzzling to me at the moment. --Fastfission 03:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese nuclear program

This article does not mention Chinece nuclear project. I think it is a serious failure not to include information on when every of nuclear wepons states acquiered the weapon. I won't contribute the info because I don't have it, I came to this article in hope to find it and am really dissapointed :-) --Dijxtra 22:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. One of my goals was to add information about other programs into the proliferation section, but I never really got around to it. But it should definitely be in there. --Fastfission 02:47, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
GlobalSecurity.orgRobotbeat 22:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russians

This article says that the US team didn't have any russians. Primary evidence from the War Department (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/truman/psources/ps_memorandum.html) states that "Dr. Kistiakowsky, the impulsive Russian, threw his arms around Dr. Oppenheimer and embraced him with shouts of glee." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.53.254.10 (talk • contribs) .

  • Huh, I never noticed that, and am not sure how that snuck in there. Yeah, they had at least one Russian (albeit a White Russian refugee); I have no idea why that line is there anyway. --Fastfission 02:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh, you know what, it is just poorly worded. The "it" doesn't refer to the people working on the project, it refers to the spies for Russia in the project (none were Russians). I'll fix that. --Fastfission 02:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US to Further Nuclear Proliferation

I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this, but would it be correct to add in information from:

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/14/030259&from=rss http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060613/ap_on_sc/nuclear_bomb_competition

I'm not quite sure how to cite things, so I'm putting this here. If this is even the place to put things like this. Sorry for what may be deviant from normal procedure.

Possibly, though not under the heading of nuclear proliferation. The replacement of old warheads has nothing to do with proliferation. On the other hand, the article does seem lacking in the recent history, and I think the aging of nuclear arsenals is an important topic. TomTheHand 15:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the article still needs a lot of work towards the end of it. The effect of the end of the Cold War on the arsenals of the Cold War powers is totally neglected (security issues in Russia, aging controversies in the US) much less a good discussion of the post-post-Cold War's approach (fear of rogue states, etc.). --Fastfission 00:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South Africa

I edited this section to state that the VELA system detected the so-called "tell-tale" intense double flash of light which is produced by an in-atmosphere nuclear explosion. I have referenced this; I can also try to find a reference for the double flash phenomenon, but you will have to add it to my user page, which is ReeToric - I just hadn't signed in when I made the edit --ReeToric 00:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Note: This article has a very small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and currently would not pass criteria 2b.
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 20:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons for GA Delisting

This article's GA status has been revoked because it fails criterion 2. b. of 'What is a Good Article?', which states;

(b) the citation of its sources using inline citations is required (this criterion is disputed by editors on Physics and Mathematics pages who have proposed a subject-specific guideline on citation, as well as some other editors — see talk page).

LuciferMorgan 21:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anglo Hate?

Why are the nationalities of the scientists given when they are not British, but when the scientists are British it is kept hidden? It would be nice to have some consistency.

Agreed, except quite a few (Frisch, Peirls, Fuchs) were refugees in Britain from the Nazis, Hugo999 (talk) 07:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thin Man & Baruch Plan

Have amended to say that the idea of a Plutonium Gun bomb was not abandoned "soon" but in fact not until April 1944, see Thin Man nuclear bomb. And the implosion or Fat Man bomb was already under development, but low priority - until it was needed to use the plutonium being produced. In August 1945 there was plenty of plutonium (well, enough for several bombs) but only enough uranium for one bomb - until Dec 45 according to Kenneth Nichols, who tends to be overlooked, but was 2IC to Groves (Farrell was Groves' executive officer) and was in charge of the production facilities.

And the Baruch Plan was said to be a half-hearted attempt by which American commentators? By Bertrand Russell, but he was originally against its rejection by Stalin, it was later that he was for unilateral nuclear disarmament by Britain/the West Hugo999 (talk) 07:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)