Talk:History of hip hop music

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Contents

[edit] questionable neutrality

"in 1988 and 1989, artists from the Native Tongues Posse released the first conscious hip hop albums, with jazz-based samples and diverse, quirky and often political lyrics covering a diverse range of topics (see jazz rap) and strongly influenced by the Afrocentric messages of Bambaataa's Zulu Nation. This would pioneer the way for A Tribe Called Quest's 1991 release, The Low End Theory, which has been acclaimed by critics and fans as one of the greatest jazz-rap albums ever, if not one of the best hip hop albums. Allmusic's John Bush described it as "one of the closest and most brilliant fusions of jazz atmosphere and hip hop attitude ever recorded."

I'm okay with the mention of jazz-hip hop, but giving one's opinion of the quality of an album, namely that of A Tribe Called Quest, goes too far. Not to hate on the brothers, but this has no place in a Wikipedia article. I haven't edited it out because I'm usually not an editor, merely a reader, just showing you the errors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.54.64.150 (talk) 14:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] to

The first paragraph of the section on Hardcore does not reference the genre. It seems like it would be better suited for a page on East Coast hip hop, or New Jersey. ReverendG 17:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is this page marked as too long? I do think this is compact enogh --hydrox 21:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

k youre right--Urthogie 21:30, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Would like to see a ref to a mainstream printed publication referring to "rap" music. Was suprised the claim is that rap music was around in early 1970's. More suprised to see a mention of it in print [June 1971 Letters to Editor YIPL/TAP Magazine - http://artofhacking.com/tap/yipl/index.htm http://artofhacking.com/tap/yipl/YIPL0104.GIF ]


[edit] To do

Still needs a lot more cleanup. Should be merged with Hip Hop's Diversification. Should also include some info from Alternative hip hop. Also could be updated from Hip hop music#history, or from old versions of itself. Still, it's definitely an improvement! Λυδαcιτγ 01:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to see some text about crunk and screw. The bling rap should have it's own section too. I would love to write some about it but I'm usally listening to mid 90s gangsta rap and some political rappers plus english is not my mother tongue.--84.217.147.44 00:47, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Just saw that bling already have a section. Good, good.. Over and out. --84.217.147.44 00:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The section on Southern hip hop needs to be expanded given the influence that that region had over hip hop in the last 10 years. Another option is to talk about the diversification of sites of emergent styles (South, St. Louis, Miami, etc.). --Saurav 10:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unreferenced

I think the references for this article are its subarticles: Roots of hip hop, for example. I would rather have the unreferenced tags on them than here, since this is basically a summary of those articles. Λυδαcιτγ 02:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:Audacity. Λυδαcιτγ 04:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The reason I tagged the article is because it refers to made up eras in hip hop music (i.e "Bling" era 1998–2001), that are subjective.

"If it wasn't for Kool Herc Hip Hop wouldn't have been created THAT'S BULLSHIT! I woulda created it ten years later..." - Sticky Fingaz

<snip>

Chubdub 20:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree that the chronological division here is highly subjective. It might make sense to just leave the years out of the headings, since the text is generally better than the heads.--Saurav 10:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_hip_hop_music" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jc213 (talk • contribs) 05:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

I do not see how you could make a statement like Kool Herc being a creator of Hip Hop Music. With all due respect he did create the culture because if it was not for him calling out emcees we may have never heard of Hip Hop Music. Not to speak whether you like it or not he created it and whether you would have done it ten years later or not you are not the originator and you should support your fellow African Americans in things they do to make your life better instead of being critical about it.

[edit] No Silver Age,Hip-Hop Still Commercialized

There is no silver age yet,yes there have been decent albums put out like the blueprint,stillmatic,hip hop is dead,college dropout ect,

But as of 2007 rap is still dominated by mainstream rappers who only rap about cars,girls,money ect.

Since there has been only a small amount of non-commercialized rappers then i suggest we leave the "bling era" to 1998-Present —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jc213 (talk • contribs) 05:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

why doesn't the golden age mention Eric B. and Rakim, who damn near token the term, its not just coincidence that there first released song was in 1986 and there last one was in 1992. Rakim created a whole new style of rhyming and lyrics and he's not mentioned, what the ****.

[edit] No Silver Age,Hip-Hop Still Commercialized

There is no silver age yet,yes there have been decent albums put out like the blueprint,stillmatic,hip hop is dead,college dropout ect,

But as of 2007 rap is still dominated by mainstream rappers who only rap about cars,girls,money ect.

Since there has been only a small amount of non-commercialized rappers then i suggest we leave the "bling era" to 1998-Present

Jc213 05:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Even though you say that the entire last two paragraphs of the "bling era" suggest otherwise. Hip-hop may very well be approaching a new era since three or four years ago albums like "College Dropout" and "Food and Liquor" would've been total failures, especially coming from new artists. They really don't make sense by themselves, so either they should be removed or something should be added to suggest that they are possible forerunners to a Silver Age of hip-hop.

"Silver Age" is still not the best term to use. Neither is "bling era". Rap is in a sort of Dark Ages right now, while 2007-2008 may represent a Renaissance, of sorts with artists like Rakim, LL Cool J, Ice Cube, Ice-T, and even Special Ed, and others returning to the scene with new releases.

[edit] Any sources?

Does anyone know of any good internet or book sources that have a lot of information about the history of hip hop and the different sub genres? Wikipedia is a good place to find out about something but i can't rely on it as fact.

There are a couple of good books to start with:

Hip Hop America by Nelson George
Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation by Jeff Chang

Kakofonous 01:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)Kakofonous

I didn't really find Hip Hop America too great, though it's highly praised. David Toop's Rap Attack (any edition, the first was written in 1985) is phenomenal in its coverage of rap's early days, highly recommended. Brian Coleman's Check the Technique is excellent, it looks closely at 36 classic rap albums from Raising Hell in '86 to M.O.P's Firing Squad a decade later, with interviews with the artists involved: an extremely useful resource and a very entertaining read. Peter Shapiro's opinionated Rough Guide to Hip Hop is fun, detailed, knowledgeable and incredibly handy, the nearest thing to a rap encyclopedia out there. These would be the three I would recommend most for people looking for sources.
I've read the early chapters of Can't Stop Won't Stop and dipped into other parts. It's good, broad and deep, building on the work of others with an exciting "new journalism" style that makes me chuckle sometimes at its purple prose. Two other good books with rather too narrow a range for broad research are ...And It Don't Stop, edited by Raquel Cepeda, collecting various journalism in the last 25 years, and Brian Cross's fascinating book on West Coast rap, race and resistance It's Not About A Salary.
One i didn't find much use was the 33 1/3 book on ATCQ, rather a touching sort of literary autobiography but not much useful info. Two I wanna read are Tricia Rose's Black Noise, an academic work, and Classic Material, edited by Oliver Wang, who gets journalists to write about their favourite albums. 86.44.6.14 (talk) 07:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] merge periods

they are only really 3 time periods of hip-hop roots 70s-79, old school 79-86, and golden age 87-96. all of their articles are weak and so are their explanations on this page. they should be condensed and merged into this page. these years are pretty close to accurate and agreed upon by hip-hop scholars. Cosprings 21:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Eras don't have to actually touch. There are some interim periods of Hip-Hop.

I agree about eras overlapping. You can't be so exact about years really, I mean check out www.oldschoolhiphop.com, www.jayquan.com, etc. and see how they divide the periods. Everybody does it differently but of course there is some kind of a common understanding. I'm speaking about people who have some authoritative knowledge on the subject. I don't know why we need such period as "the roots"; '79 was a year for hitting mainstream but it's not like oldschool started there. Oldschool(early 70's to early 80's), Classic hiphop (mid 80's to late 90s) and Newschool/Modern hiphop(2000s). Oh and think about it, any era could be considered something entirely else 5-10 years from now.-bombaclat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.237.190.177 (talk) 21:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganization of "New School Hip Hop"

I seem to notice that the history of hip hop on new school hasn't really gotten anywhere and I see this as a result of bias. The fact that hip hop has been commercialized even more so in the new school era shouldn't mean that hip hop is in a "dead state" right now. Whether it's commercialized or underground, we almost have unwritten history for around 9 years of "new school hip hop".

With that said, I propose that we divide new school hip hop into three smaller subjects: "New York reigns again 1997-2003" (or something like that), "Southern Hip Hop Scene 2003-Present", and "Return of Golden Age Hip Hop? 2007-Present".

For the first era, mainstream hip hop focused around this time mainly on East Coast-based rappers and labels: Ruff Ryders(DMX, Jadakiss, Eve), Bad Boy (Ma$e, Black Rob, 112, Faith Evans), Murder Inc. (Ja Rule, Ashanti), Roc-a-fella (Jay-Z, Freeway, Kanye West, Beanie Sigel), Terror Squad (Big Pun, Fat Joe, Remy Ma), Ill Will (Nas, Bravehearts), and even late in the era G-Unit (50 Cent, Lloyd Banks, Young Buck). Other rappers that had some prominence but not part of a prominent label also include Busta Rhymes, Mobb Deep, The Fugees, M.O.P., and Wu-Tang Clan.

Don't get it wrong that I'm leaving everything else out in this era, but East Coast/New York hip hop seemed to be the most prominent. This era would also note development the South's rise (Master P, Ludacris, Cash Money Records, Lil Jon, Lil Wayne) and the Midwest scene (Dr. Dre's Aftermath Records, Eminem, Nelly,). It's important to note that around this time, the rappers from the South had hardcore attitudes around this time before the southern rap became more club-oriented.

Now in the Dirty South Scene, it should mention rise of sub-genres (Crunk, Snap Rap, Chopped & Screwed) and prominent labels and rappers: Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz, Ludacris, Ying Yang Twins, Grand Hustle Records (T.I., Young Dro), Yung Joc, Young Jeezy, Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, Chamillionaire, Paul Wall, Cash Money Records (Juvenile, Lil Wayne), No Limit Records (Master P, Mystikal). All of these are examples and since the South is a vast area, some rappers could be condensed into certain states such as Virginia (Missy Elliot, Pharrell, The Clipse, Timbaland) and Texas (Paul Wall, Mike Jones, Slim Thug, Chamillionaire)

This era would also mention the decline of East Coast hip hop and the slight revival of West Coast. In the decline, it would mention such things as the fall-out of Murder Inc and Bad Boy and the high amount of beef in hip hop (underground vs. mainstream, old vs. new, the slight regional friction between East Coast and Dirty South.)

"Return of Golden Age Hip Hop?" would note Nas's album "Hip Hop Is Dead", signifying that the commercialization of hip hop has lead the music to being less than it was in the Golden Era. In this era, it would mention the collaboraton album of KRS-One and Marley Marl called "Hip Hop Lives", a landmark between the two as they were in beef between each other 20 years earlier. Rakim Allah will be releasing "The Seventh Seal" at an undisclosed time. Some new school rappers have adopted the lyricism and content prominent in the Golden Age (Lupe Fiasco) while others have always kept it yet met more mainstream success recently (Common, Talib Kweli, Mos Def). Bone Thugs-N-Harmony also has been revived after years of inactiveness. Wu-Tang Clan will also be releasing an album "8 Diagrams" in Summer 2007. Papoose, an underground New York-based rapper, has built a strong fanbase and will release his debut album "The Nacirema Dream" in September of 2007. Many predict Papoose's release will bring East Coast hip hop back onto the mainstream scene.MichaelHavas 14:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I like this idea except for the last era part. Just because Nas came out with that album doesn't mean the Golden era is returning (though I wish it would). Southern hip hop and R&B type hip hop are still the most popular and have yet to die out (unfortunately)68.164.85.197 (talk) 04:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)