Talk:History of conversion of Jews to Islam

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This article was nominated for deletion on June 7, 2005. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on January 2, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on September 19, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Archive 1

Contents 1 Another failed AfD for this article... 2 Changing the name 3 Similarities between Islam and Judaism 4 Neutral Point of View? 5 Islamic propaganda 6 Merger proposal

[edit] Another failed AfD for this article...

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 January, 2007. A record of the discussion can be found here. The consensus was that the article should be kept, with a strong contingent supporting renaming. Tomer^talk 19:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I strongly believe this article should be deleted.87.69.77.76 20:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

So if five Jews were converted to Zoroastrianism should we open article about that? It is ridicules.This article don't stand it the term of wikipedia even.

[edit] Changing the name

Suggestions? crz crztalk 19:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• As I've already recommended, Jewish converts to Islam. My preference, however, is to create Category:Jewish converts to Islam as a subcategory of Category:Converts to Islam, take relevant parts of this article and use it as lead text for that proposed category, and dump the rest of it, most of which is unencyclopedic rambling. Tomer^talk 20:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Propose History of conversion from Judaism to Islam crz crztalk 20:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Since the discussion is dead, I've been bold. - crz crztalk 11:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
    • I have no argument with your having done so, but...in the interest of rationality, now would be a good time for you to pare out "information" irrelevant to your preferred title. Thanks, Tomer^talk 01:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
      • I trimmed a bit this morning. You may feel free to help. - crz crztalk 01:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
        • I still feel like deleting 90% of it is the best "help" possible for this article... Tomer^talk 01:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
        • There. That's my idea of cleanup. Tomer^talk 02:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Similarities between Islam and Judaism

You know I realise there's a lot more similarity between Judaism and Islam than Judaism and Christianity - firstly, it's to do with the concept of God. As we know, Jews and Muslims believe in a pure monotheistic form of god - the Oneness of God. Yet, Christians, on the other hand (and I don't mean to be discriminatory but just stating the truth) state that God is Three in One. In other words, worshipping Jesus as the Son of God since that he represents God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. To me it doesn't seem like the Oneness of God. Secondly, Halal and Kosher. Though I cannot find proof that the Jews ask God for the blessing of the slaughtering of animals for eating, I notice that both have similar procedures using sharp knives and that only live animals can be slaugthered for eating - since that eating dead animals is not considered healthy. I know for sure that both religions practise male circumcision widely. Anything else that I'm missing? --Fantastic4boy 03:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Without opining on whether you're right or wrong, remember that this is an encyclopedia. Let's stick to facts, reliable sources, and history, and avoid pop-theology, comparisons, or sectarianism of any kind. We're unlikely to all agree here. - crz crztalk 03:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Everything Fanta4boy mentions is parts of Judaism watered down and adopted by Islam. That's hardly either spectacular or article-worthy. Christianity also borrowed and watered down a lot of things from Judaism...more things, in fact, than Islam did. In any case, no matter how "interesting" an individual editor might find the subject, similarities between Judaism and any other religion are completely irrelevant to this article. Tomer^talk 05:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neutral Point of View?

This article should be changes to contain a nore neutral point of view...right now it seems to present all jews who convert to islam as forced. There is no evidence to support this.

Yes, I agree with you. It seems bias to say that all Jews who are now practicing the Islamic faith were forcibly converted to that religion. Yes, it is true that there are some extreme Muslim dynasties such as the Safavids and some (if not all) of the Ottoman rulers, but how about those who voluntarily converted to Islam such as those seen in the early years of Muslim Spain adn those in moderate Muslim nations. You see the Koran clearly states in Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2:256 there is "no compulsion in religion" and in Surah Al-Kafirun (The Disbelievers) "onto you be your religion, and onto me be my religion". So, it can't be that all of them were forcibly converted to this religion. People like Joseph Cohen (Yusuf Al-Khatab), a former New Yorker Kew who now lives in Israel, converted to Islam voluntarily. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.15.122.35 (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

It is not bias at all since more Jews were converted to Islam by force than by choice.Oren.tal 22:02, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• Then tell me why Jews came running to the Ottoman Empire and tell me why there are still so many jews living in islamic countries that are still practicing Jews (ie Turkey, Tunisia, Morrocco).-Vmrgrsergr 02:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islamic propaganda

All this article look like Islamic propaganda. I don't believe there are place in wikipedia for such thing. I am also wondering if there are article like conversation from Islam to Christianity?There is NO. I suggest to erase this article. It was created as propaganda and it is of no value except for some people that try to do propaganda. Ir it is not erased I also suggest to create article about conversation from Islam to Christianity.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Oren.tal (talk • contribs)

I agree. It does seem like propaganda. You are more than welcome to nominate it for an AFD. Hopefully it will be deleted.--Sefringle^Talk 05:26, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• There is no propaganda.There are groups of Jews who beleive that the God they worship is Allah hence "Jews for Allah." And there are sources right in the external links section coming from Jews so there is no propaganda.If you want to make such an accusation atleast provide something more than just your own personal opinion.-Vmrgrsergr 02:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm unsure how much the article has changed since the point which the above claim of "propaganda" was made, but in any case, it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem anymore. However, the existence of this page is problematic and unnecessary; the topic is not so unique as to warrant an article, and in that sense I wonder if propaganda-related motives come into play in this respect, at least (if they do at all). There is absolutely no reason why this tiny article shouldn't be merged into Judaism and Islam, or some even more relevant page. Perhaps I'll propose an official merge to that effect.--C.Logan (talk) 12:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

I see something problematic with the existence of this article as-is. It seems apparent to me that this is a rather clunky topic that doesn't really have a strong foundation. It's not so much that the topic isn't based in reality, but the existence of the page seems rather contrived, when it would be more appropriately placed as a section at the page Judaism and Islam.

This becomes especially apparent when one notes the fact that this entire article is nothing more than a section with an introductory sentence and a paragraph of unsourced information which really doesn't say much of any importance (and is poor in comparison to the thorough elaboration on the issue and the context provided by the proposed destination article). Beyond this lone, meaty section, it has a short and rather trivial section on modern conversions which does little else but re-list names found on actual convert lists.

The relevant information within this article would be entirely appropriate within this section, and would elucidate on a topic which seems somewhat neglected there. Again, I don't believe there is any reason that this contrived topic deserves an anemic article when it has more relevance in use within an article dealing with the relation between the two religions. In summary, I propose that the information within History of conversion of Jews to Islam be merged into the "Historical interaction" section of Judaism and Islam.--C.Logan (talk) 12:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent idea; please do it, and convert this one into a redirect. -- Gabi S. 19:22, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I did it. -- Gabi S. 19:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the initiative.--C.Logan 20:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)