Talk:History of Russian
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Note. Many Russian historians of the East Slavic region equate Russia with an earlier political state called Rus' (Русь). Other scholars consider Russia to have developed later from Slavic settlements amidst the Finno-Ugric areas of the northeastern hinterlands of Rus'. Ghirlandajo 22:53, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This statement on the lamentable state of scholarship of the history of Russia and the Russian language is true. However this blatantly false equation of Russia with Rus' is a late invention. It became current in the politically Mongolian and ethnically heavily Finno-Ugric and linguistically heavily Old Slavonic newly-formed nation called "Moscow" only in the 15th century, to justify the claims of its rulers to the aristocratic title to "all of Rus'", which was, at the time, a wish, not a reality! Genyo 01:13, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV before the Moscovite period. Lacunae afterwards.
Unfortunately, this article has degenerated into reverts based on the national feelings of Russian and Ukrainian patriots.
Indeed, the history is not, and never was, very well done at all (I can say this with a very clear conscience because much of the text is, or was, mine).
Here are the points that, on reflection, deserve mentioning. Note that I try to concentrate on the modern political territory of Russia; the rest, if there can be any agreement, should properly be mentioned in the articles on the Ukr./Belar., or in East Slavic language.
- Pre-950 (+/-)
There are conflicting interpretations on whether or not Slavs spread to the territory or were autochthones. In any case, that they were by the end of this period established in much of modern central/northern Russia can be deduced from the presence of Slavic borrowing in the Finno-Ugric languages with -n- interpolated after a (reconstructed) Common Slavonic yus. As is well known, nasal vowels are not consistently indicated in any of the E.Sl. languages/dialects going back to the beginning of the historical records.
There are hints and suppositions about a pre-Cyrillic writing system, but nothing is unequivocally accepted, nor is the geographic extent of such a writing system properly determined.
- 950-1100
Political centre shifts from Novgorod to Kiev (thus the modern recriminations). Simultaneously extant Cyrillic inscriptions appear. The earliest unequivocal find is the Gnezdovo amphora (one word!). There are already dialectal differences. Interesting tidbit that the second/third palatalizations seem to be incomplete around Novgorod, a feature of the vernacular rather than the OCS-influenced chronicles, etc.
The language is fairly close to OCS in terms of its flexions. Full-voicing more prevalent than in the standard Russian today.
Reconstructed phonology (yers, yat: regions of differentiation and merging with other phonemes).
- 1100-1400
The modern phonological system is established. The development of то as a kind of postpositional article, though it plays no part in the modern literary language.
The decline of some ancient forms (dual, imperfect) in the non-liturgical language.
- 1400-1700
Centre at Moscow. Strong dialectal diffentiation; incipient modern national languages. Literature, etc, etc. Grammar takes more or less its modern form
- 1700-1830
A search for a common modern literary language, arguments about and attempts at various styles.
- 1830-1917
"Classical" Russian.
I've left out a pile of points: it's very late at my longitude. :) But in any case, let's drop the politics and the exclamation points. Really, it's more than tedious. :) A. Shetsen 07:46, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
[edit] reading of "Winter evening"
First attempt at reading Pushkin aloud on wiki. Do let me know if I fouled it up or not. - karmosin 00:51, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] ˈjus.fəlʲ.nɨj is bad
юсфульный - фу, какая мерзость, похуже "креативности" или "таунхаузов".... Maybe we should put "креативность" instead, as it seems to be used more than the one in the article (can't use that terrible "useful" word again). With respect, Ko Soi IX 10:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I've never heard this word living in Russia for all my life. So i think it should be changed to something more appropriate or deleted altogether. Regards, Dr rus (talk) 22:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
