Talk:History of Morocco

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Contents

[edit] Former vandal-added "featured article" tag

The following note has been left at this User's Talkpage: "==History of Morocco== You have tagged this article "dubious" without offering your rationale at Talk:History of Morocco. Please do so at your early convenience. Thank you. --Wetman 09:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)"

  • Let me apologize for that... I am a fairly novice editor of the wikipedia network, and my tagging was in reference to the aticle "The History of Morocco" has been tagged as a Featured Article, without going through the usual mechanics... I apologize if i havbe caused serious problems here, however I hoped to draw the attention of a more experienced user who could help me here. I made a note of my complaints below on the Talk page Thethinredline 15:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't know but this never went through the mechanics. It therefore doesn't qualify. This was just a vandal, I move that this FA status is just removed and that we shouldn't have to go through the usual procedures. Thethinredline 14:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Since I've seen that the "featured" tag was added by a clever hardcore often-blocked vandal, User:217.169.129.33, I have removed the spurious tag. Thanks are due to to Thethinredline's keen eye! Welcome to the sleazy underbelly of Wikipedia! All editors should be required to log in first, to reduce vandalism. --Wetman 21:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm just glad that the gross infringement of wikipedia procedure was found by a higher power, and dealt with. At least I now have someone to go to if i should spot another significant miscarriage of wikipedia ;-P Thethinredline 21:27, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barbary State

What of Morocco as a Barbary State? Scott Ritchie 3 July 2005 00:16 (UTC)

[edit] Distracting blank spaces

Formatting that encases the framed table of contents in text, in just the way a framed map or image is enclosed within the text, is now available: {{TOCleft}} in the HTML does the job.

Blank space opposite the ToC, besides being unsightly and distracting, suggests that there is a major break in the continuity of the text, which may not be the case. Blanks in page layout are voids and they have meanings to the experienced reader. The space betweeen paragraphs marks a brief pause between separate blocks of thought. A deeper space, in a well-printed text, signifies a more complete shift in thought: note the spaces that separate sub-headings in Wikipedia articles.

A handful of thoughtless and aggressive Wikipedians revert the "TOCleft" format at will. A particularly aggressive de-formatter is User:Ed g2s

The reader may want to compare versions at the Page history. --Wetman 20:27, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV tag

I noticed that User:Bokpasa has tagged the article as a {{POV}} w/o even ever discussed his issues. I've leaving meassages and questions about their late new edits who are absolutely innacurate like changing all Dynasties to Sultanates!!!! Even blanking a whole section about the chronologies and like if the history only started yesterday!!! I am removing the tag and informing them in their talk page again. Or could you please indicate which parts you see as POV and make our life easy? Cheers -- Szvest 02:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up™

I am finding consideragle POV in the way some information is potrayed and mainly a with that which has been left out. Please bear with me, I am working on it and will show my discontent on the talk pages.Cgonzalezdelhoyo 11:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] barbary pirates

the First Barbary War article indicates that Morocco was one of the Barbary states that the US warred against in 1801 to 1805 to avoid being held to ransom as the price of avoiding piracy. Yet, no battles were fought with Morocco and Morocco had a treaty of friendship with the U.S. What is the truth here? Perhaps the government of Morocco was conniving with the piracy and Christian slavery of Algiers, Tunis and Tripoli? Perhaps, Morocco did not fully control the activities of some its cities and residents? Any facts here? Thanks Hmains 17:46, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] idris

i replaced idris Ibn salih with Idris ibn Abdallah, who is the correct person, i think. Unixer 18:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why?

Why sometime we can read Isqtal want? --Moi 13:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC) unsigned comment by User:Bokpasa

Huh? What do you mean? Please do not change dynasties to what you want. -- Szvest 13:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Some notable references and sources so your vandalism and racist comments on edit summaries would stop one day:
So please change your way of editing here. If you don't agree w/ the above references than you edits will be officially treated as vandalism.-- Szvest 13:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up™
Sometimes Dynastys and country, are the same nazarí and Kingdom of Grenade, but Almoravids and Morocco arent not the same,Moroccan dynasties aare the name of alls dynasties life and comand in actually Morroco, but this the same than Italian dynasties ,Savoy, Borbón-Parma, Modena-Este, Bosbon-Dos Sicilias...
If you think they are can be posible.. if posible a sucession bewteen the last Idrisid Dynasty in 974, and the next Maghrawa Dynasty in 987... 13 years interregnum?
Only Isqtal party, write and modifict his history, they are change this real History! unsigned comment by User:Bokpasa

[edit] NPOV-section

Morroco is than Almoravids sucessor`s, like Saudi Arabia Caliphate sucessor`s...

I know, that they have the same languague, same religion, and the same culture, and geography.. but are not the same country.unsigned comment by User:Bokpasa

So you base your logic on comparaisons and original research instead of facts and notable references? You brought no valid reason anyway!
By the way, do you have any notable or academic reference that back up your original research? Yes Al Istiqlal party did a make-up to a several sections of Moroccan history as it was done or has been occuring in all parts of the world but that doesn't mean your theory is correct! Do you know that you're editing an encyclopaedia and not teaching at a primary school where pupils just listen to what the teacher is preaching w/o any academic sources? I brought my sources above and was thinking you had a few as well but you got nuffin.
Please don't forget to sign your comments! -- Szvest 23:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up™

[edit] Morroco born in 1660

International court of Justice 1975Moi 14:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Bokpasa. Please guide us to the particular reference and show us explicitly what does that say. -- Szvest 14:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

History of Morroco are similiar like Iran history. Dinastys and kings

In this resolution the Internacional Court of Justice, wrote Morroco, isn´t the same country Almoravides,Amohades... is different, for this reason Morroco wasn`t historic rights to West Sahara, and West Sahara can be a country...

And I can right in english, but in one tratate with Spain, Moorroco reconoce that it haven`t got anyright to the south of Draa river -the year 1880`s.Moi 20:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Iran, Sweden, Guatemala, Banana islands are all original research from your side. If you have something concrete, please bring it or else stop this "headache" for once. -- Szvest 22:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you read corretly?... because I dont think so.... You are muy "headache" because you dont reconoce the "Internacional Court of Justice" in resolution of West Sahara in 1975, rechazed , that Morocco is the heirless of Amohades,Almoravides,Wattasides,.....

Morocco is than Almoravide, like Algeria. Anyone of them are Almoravides. Moi 00:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I am very fed up w/ your original research. If you don't stop this nonsense and agree to the terms and policies of Wikipedia (mainly WP:Cite sources), i'll be obliged to treat this as vandalism. -- Szvest 10:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Hitler! ... I have a Primary source and you always dont want reconoce that... Why?..vandalism ., ok.... Moi 11:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi Bokpasa. If you have a primary source, show it to me explicitly. If not than send it to Hitler instead. I am not Hitler. This lack of objectivity shows that you are just ranting. I'd not call it a personal attack as it is not important. -- Szvest 11:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Bokpasa is unfortunately a well-known user in es:. He supports strong anti-Moroccan stances but usually, as here, lacks any sources that sustain their opinions. I think that what he tries to show here is the Advisory Opinion of the ICJ on the Western Sahara. In the link provided (only the summary is available) you can see (answer to question 2) that the ICJ states that:

Having considered this evidence and the observations of the other States which took part in the proceedings, the Court finds that neither the internal nor the international acts relied upon by Morocco indicate the existence at the relevant period of either the existence or the international recognition of legal ties of territorial sovereignty between Western Sahara and the Moroccan State. Even taking account of the specific structure of that State, they do not show that Morocco displayed any effective and exclusive State activity in Western Sahara. They do, however, provide indications that a legal tie of allegiance existed at the relevant period between the Sultan and some, but only some, of the nomadic peoples of the territory, through Tekna caids of the Noun region, and they show that the Sultan displayed, and was recognized by other States to possess, some authority or influence with respect to those tribes.

Although I don't have the text of the whole Opinion, I understand that Bokpasa's rationale is that, considering that according to the ICJ there is "not territorial sovereignty between Western Sahara and the Moroccan State", and that the Almohad Empire did include such territories, it's not valid to make the statement "Morocco equals to Almohad Empire". Best regards --Ecemaml 14:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC) (administrator en es:)

Thanks for your assistance Ecemaml. I've read the court Advisory Opinion of 16 October 1975. I must note and remind Bokpasa that the opinion/hearing deals with the situation (as it is mentionned there a few times) "at the time of its colonization by Spain and in the period immediately preceding". There's no indication or reference whatsover to the medieval or early periods of Moroccan history. -- Szvest 17:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Another note. Morocco's name has ever been "Al-Maghrib" since the Idrissides. Almohad, Idrissides, Almoravides had all the time called their territories the same name, which has been "Al-Maghrib". -- Szvest 17:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Some contries can usurper names as Mauritania as a moder country and a roman province, Palestine was a roman province and Palestine (Gaza Strip and West Bank), Ghana and the ancient Ghana Empire, F.Y.R.O.M and Greek Macedonia.... the same name it´s not always the same country... And sometime some countries change the names....
    • I remember one tratate Morocco-Spain in 1880`s ,,, the sultan wrote..I haven got anyright to the south of Draa River....

Don't get me involved I don't want to get roped into this, as I have neither expertise nor interest in it, but I will refer you to this, this, and this. While the modern Moroccan state hasn't existed since 1956, clearly a Moroccan nation has existed for several centuries. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 16:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input Justin. -- Szvest 17:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • When Spain and Portugal was part of Morocco? Wikipedia can be neutral not racist, because the only reason is the "race".... moorish isn`t morroccon.Moi 13:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Pls sign your comments and stop trolling and talking about racism!!! In fact, what are you talking about TOI? Where in the article it says Morocco controlled Portugal and Spain? -- Szvest 16:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stop your "Racist" allegations

Bokpasa, que pasa?! Please stop attacking me personally like you dit here. It is not the first time but i hope it will be the last one. I may remind you of the consequences. Back to the subject! Who says Spain and Portugal were part of Morocco? Could you explain to us what's wrong in here? -- Szvest 14:38, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

    • If almohads and almoravids are morrocon dynasty, is the same as Julio-Claudian and Antonine Dynasty dynastys in the Roman Empire... these dynastys aren`t Morrocan...

And why we dont write "Antonine Dynasty" is a Spanish Dynasty... is the same case....emperators born in Spain...as almoravids and almohades in Morocco..

Acording Wikipedia rulers the NVOP BOX, not be remove...but you always removing... Moi 00:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FayssalF

Why you always vandalist my acts?

You don`t know the different of:

And.

And

And its good learn more about Morroco, and its real history. Because , your opinion about Morroco its similiar like "Führer" and his "Germany". Moi 22:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYI

Since you have learned your way (you are reverted in all wiki versions es, fr and here), you can see the effect of your learning. You are totally wrong and mislead. If you have learned the History of Morocco in a Spanish university, so does Ecemaml and other Spanish users here and in the es wiki. So how come your points are different than theirs? It just mean that your are totally using your POV. Apart from all this garbage, you brought no single source or reference to sustain your claims (apart from the Advisory Opinion of the ICJ on the Western Sahara which limits its opinion to the 18th and 19th centuries. You brought nothing, am i right?

One more thing, as i already asked you to refrain from personal attacks twice, it is time to have a break. I am blocking you for that according to wikipedia policies that you are not respecting. You have accused me a racist and Hitler. Now you become more sophisticated in this behaviour, you are calling me a Fuhrer. Is this a civilized manner to discuss matters in your life? If so, this is not the right place to do so. You called the other admin in the fr wiki a racist as well!!!! I mean it is sooooo random your accusations are! Learn to be civilized before asking me to learn about the history of Morocco. Don't forget to enhance your English and other languages, and never forget to respect the manual of style in wikipedia.

Tienes entonces que añadir eso a tu propaganda en la pagína de discusión allí. Di a todo el mundo que somos terrerificos y nos parecemos muchisimo al Fuhrer y que nos vamos a matarte despues del bloqueo. No olvides de insister de llamar a ese jaleo istiqlal a la vez del PP. Buena suerte.

P.S. Remover el nonsense no significa que soy pro-morocco como no significa que tu eres anti-morocco. -- Szvest 11:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

[edit] Some items

In order to get a more accurate description of the history of Morocco, I think that some emphasis on the loose character of the statal structures of the different dynasties that ruled Morocco should be introduced. I mean, muslim statal structures were weaker and looser than their counterparts in Europe (heir to the Roman traditions), for example. Also, in order to avoid the constant interference of Bokpasa (as in es: he didn't learn to follow the manual of style, therefore their contributions are usually rubbish) it would be good, especially when talking about early phases to talk about "what currently Morocco is" (or the territory of nowadays Morocco) instead of Morocco. Best regards --Ecemaml 07:33, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ecemaml. Do you have any particular examples that we can discuss? -- Szvest 11:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi! Why I can see kingdoms Barghawata and Sijilmassa? again.... Moi 14:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Add them if they don't appear but please respect the layout:Wikipedia:How to edit a page. Please do not forget to sign (use the 4 ~). -- Szvest 16:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Place

Somebody know where is Aguz (Souira Guedima)?Bokpasa 14:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Google knows all No, but you could try Google Earth. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 15:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Never heard of Aguz. Souira Guedima refers to the old name of Essaouira which was Mogador at the times of the Portugueses. Literally "Souira Guedima" means "old Essaouira"! I am suspecting that we have 2 articles talking about the same. -- Szvest 15:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Souira Guedima is the modern name for what used to be known as Aguz, Agouz (or in French translation of el-Bakri spelled Couz), it used to be port for Aghmat in 11th century, then was taken over by Portuguese in early 16th century. It is at the mouth of the Tensift river. MisterCDE 01:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)