Talk:History of Liberia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Africa
Africa Portal
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Africa, which collaborates on articles related to Africa in Wikipedia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Assessment comments

Contents

[edit] Pre-Liberian inhabitants?

Who lived in the region that would become Liberia before the freed slaves arrived? Presumably there were already African inhabitants before the slaves? Who were they and what happened to them? Some information on this would be great. The Singing Badger 02:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I have read this article and I find that the entire Americo-Liberian/ native African dynamic in Liberia's history has been skipped over.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.28.104.21 (talk • contribs)

Find some reliable published sources, and add the information. There are a lot of gaps in this article. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 20:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible copyright issue ?

  • It appears much of the text is largly copied from [1], as featured on the External links section. Does the author have permission to use this information ? MadMax 19:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] After independance

I've expanded the opening section, but there's more that can be done. The real gap is from independance in 1847 until the 1980's. How can we talk about the history of Liberia without saying anything about Firestore? I'll come back to this as I find the time, but I do not own this article. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 11:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)and that someone who goes 2 liberia shouls answer a guestion of what are some of the landforms is liberia roshad

[edit] Unique - but as stated??

"is unique in Africa as it started neither as a native state nor as a European colony," - What about Ethiopia? What about Egypt?Kdammers 06:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Ethiopia and Egypt qualify as 'native states'. Ethiopia has a very long history as an independent country, interrupted only by the Italian occupation of 1936 to 1941. Egypt, although long part of the Ottoman Empire, was effectively autonomous until Britain established its protectorate in the 19th century. Since Egypt was a protectorate and not a colony, Egypt as a country continued through to today. Similarly, Morocco was independent until 1906 - 1912, when France and Spain divided it into protectorates, which ended in 1956. -- Donald Albury 11:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incorporation of Maryland County

The annexation of Maryland County really belongs in the post-independence section. I just cleaned up a couple of factual issues, but formatting is beyond me.

[edit] Maryland state

Per this reference and this this reference, Marland was founded as Maryland-in-Africa in 1834, became the State of Maryland in Liberia on 2 Feb 1841, declared itself independent of Liberia (as the Independent State of Maryland in Liberia) on 29 May 1854, and was incorporated into Liberia again (as Maryland County) on 18 Mar 1857. As I can find no references for the colony being called Maryland in Liberia prior to 1841, I will edit the article to match the sources. -- Donald Albury 13:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The "declaration of independence" in 1854 was independence from the Maryland State Colonization Society, not from Liberia. Cite: same sources as below.

Regarding hyphenation, I would direct you here: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@filreq(@field(NUMBER+@band(g8880+lm000010))+@field(COLLID+lmmap)) The actual name of the colony seems to have been fluid in the early years, known alternatively as "Cape Palmas" or "The Maryland Colony," but I would direct one here: http://www.mdhs.org/library/Mss/ms000571.html

These are the notes made in the preservation process of the Maryland Historical Society's colonization records. It reads, in pertinent part,

These volumes contain a similar set of letters, all of them written by John H. B. Latrobe, who served as the Colonization Society's first Corresponding Secretary and became President in March 1837. Volume 1 consists largely of letters to Dr. Hall while the latter was Governor of Maryland in Liberia.

The emphasis is mine, but "Dr. Hall" refers to Dr. James Hall, who governed the colony from its founding in 1834 until February 11, 1836. Cite: On Afric's Shore & "Papers of the Maryland State Colonization Society" microfilms @ Maryland Historical Society.

The document also references an 1837 document as the "Constitution and Laws of Maryland in Liberia."

Unfortunately the original documents can be viewed only on microfilm, save for a few pdf's scattered about the net. I've rooted through only a few of the film rolls.

Also, this reference from Google books... http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC07874806&id=eH4v32dswI8C&pg=RA4-PA11&lpg=RA4-PA11&dq=%22maryland+in+liberia%22&as_brr=1 Though it seems unlikely to have been published, as indicated, in 1834, this work references the colony as "Maryland in Liberia" from its founding. I suspect that some original uses of "The State of Maryland in Liberia" actually meant "The (U.S.) State of Maryland('s activites in) Liberia."

This is why it is so important to cite your sources when you add material. Without seeing these sources, I had nothing to go on except for the sources I had found. The article needs to acknowledge the discrepancies between sources. I wish we knew where the worldstatesmen.org site got its information. Also note that, according to worldstatesmen.org, Liberia became independent in 1847 (and was recognized as such by the United Kingdom in 1848, and by France in 1852), so it seems anomalous for Maryland in Liberia to be declaring independence from the Maryland Colonization Society in 1854. So, did Maryland in Liberia not be come a part of Liberia before it became independent? Worldstatesmen.org says it did, but I see now that the kaery.ellone-loire.net site shows a name change from Maryland-in-Africa to State of Maryland in Liberia in 1841 without actually stating that Maryland joined Liberia. Unfortunately, all we can do is note the discrepancies and hope we find more complete sources.
On another note, there's a big gap in the history between independence and the late 20th-century civil war that needs to be filled in. The whole Firestone rubber plantation thing needs to be covered, and I suspect there are other interesting episodes that I don't know about. I have intended to research it, but other things keep seeming to have a higher priority for me. Sigh! -- Donald Albury 18:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Just learned about how to cite sources in the article. Sorry for the omission. Regarding your question about Maryland's independence and relationship with Liberia proper. The nomenclature is definitly a little confusing as the name "Maryland in Liberia" does not indicate incorporation into Liberia. In fact, any reference to the specific title "Maryland in Liberia" describes the pre-annexation period, as its name after annexation was "Maryland County." There's even a map in the Hall book dated 1839 with the area around Cape Palmas labeled "Maryland in Liberia."

Up until 1854 the colony was operated by the Md. State Colonization Society as an entity wholly separate from Liberia proper. Worldstatesman I think simply says Md. in Liberia declared independence without indicating from whom. Liberia's declaration of independence from the Amer. Colonization Society in 1847, while important in the history of the Md. colony, was irrevelant to its status as an entity of the Md. State Colonization Society. At some point the Md. Colonization Society restyled the colony as a commonwealth, intended to encourage it to support itself financially and reduce the burden on the cash-strapped colonizatin society. This could be where some indication of a minor name change occurs, though I've not seen documents to that effect. The scant authoritative writing on the subject almost uniformly settles on the name "Maryland in Liberia" for its entire existence from 1834 to 1857.

And now that I look back over some things, it appears the official name from the outset was "Maryland in Liberia." I guess you can't get much more authoritative than the original deed when the Md. Colonization Society bought the land from the indigeneous Greboe people. It's more interesting for the list of what they paid for the land than its reference to a name, but there it is. I humbly submit that we consider this one settled and move on to expanding the article. http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/megafile/msa/speccol/sc4800/sc4872/000060/html/m60-0472.html

I should add some of this to the article itself, i know. My knowledge ends at the Md. colony's annexation in 1957, but I'm putting together a project about the Maryland colony and will add pre-1957 stuff as I have time. John Sanders 3:20pm EDT Sept. 10 2006

Looking back at the worldstateman site, I see that I was reading too much into it. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I got into this because I said 'keep' in a deletion discussion on an article called Colonial Heads of Port Cresson and Bassa Cove, which turned out to be a copy of this. As I had supported keeping the article, I felt obligated to do something with it, and the best choice seemed to be to put the information here. Any way, it is interesting that the Maryland society tried to hold into its colony after Liberia became independent. And as I sit here, I have this nagging thought about readin something about River Cess County also having some sort of independent existence at some point, but I can't remember any details. -- Donald Albury 01:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. At one point at least Mississippi, Maryland and a joint venture between New York and Pennsylvania were all operating west African colonies independent of Liberia proper. Mississippi's became what is now Sinoe County but I can't remember what the others became. I'm pretty confident Maryland's was the only to declare independence from America and exist as an sovereign nation before joining Liberia. Anyway, thanks for checking out my sources. I was a little worried I was about to get lost in an edit war and lose interest in Wikipedia before I even got started. Hey, who cleans out this talk page so it doesn't get to be miles long? John Sanders 10:00EDT Sept 10, 2006

[edit] "European" settlement

Just wondering why the word "European" is in quotation marks in the first paragraph. I'm fully prepared to believe and accept that there's a reason for it, but I couldn't think of it off the top of my head; without further explanation, the quotation marks might be confusing for others, too. CommanderFalafel 13:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. Since this was asked over a year ago, and no one has provided an answer, I'm removing the quotation marks. 145.120.11.72 19:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The explanation is that, technically, the arrival of freed American slaves is not an "European" settlement and thus the sentence
No further known European settlements occurred along the Grain Coast until the arrival of freed American slaves after 1817.

isn't quite correct as written.

I noticed User:145.120.11.72's removal of the quotes and started pondering over what the correct wording should be. I don't have an answer but I think I understand the problem at least.

From 1461 to 1663, there were a number of European settlements. No problem with that.

In 1817, there was a settlement by freed American slaves. Fine.

However, you cannot say

No further known European settlements occurred along the Grain Coast until the arrival of freed American slaves after 1817.

because the 1817 settlement was not a "European" settlement.

You could say

No further known settlements by non-African colonists occurred along the Grain Coast until the arrival of freed American slaves starting in 1817.

I'm going to change the wording to say that but I'm open to discussing further improvements.

--Richard 23:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WWI

I read in World Book that it sent troops to France during the war but not here. I would add it but it doesn't tell how many were sent. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.206.165.25 (talk) 04:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Cole, Liberia 1.jpg

The image Image:Cole, Liberia 1.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)