Talk:History of Kosovo

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[edit] Creating sub-articles

When Chris created this page from Kosovo, he simultaneously changed two paragraphs, as could be seen in this diff. Now, I actually think that his change of the first paragraph improved the article, but this is bad practice as users can't see the diffs and hence wouldn't know about changes if they wouldn't check manually; and Chris didn't even state that there were any changes in the edit summary. (To clarify, I copy/pasted revision 6976963; it wasn't Chris who lowered number of refugees, it was GeneralPatton. Other changes are by Chris.) Nikola 11:33, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I added a few lines to fill in some missing details (I thought it was bizarre that NATO's intervention in Kosovo wasn't even mentioned), but unfortunately I didn't think of doing it separately from moving the page so that the difference could be seen. Sorry about that. -- ChrisO 00:33, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] A short history of Kosovo

From A short history of kosovo. Rescued before redirect.

"A short history of Kosovo Present-day Kosovo becomes part of the Ottoman Empire in 1389. The Ottomon Empire establishes in 1877 a separate vilayet (province) of Kosovo. In 1912 Kosovo is incorporated into Serbia, and follows its history. In 1941 Kosovo is occupied by Italy, that annexes it to Albania. In 1944 the area is re-incorporated into Yugoslavia, that forms in 1945 the Autonomous Kosovo-Metohija District and in 1963 Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija and in 1968 the Socialist Autonomous Province of Kosovo. Serbia strongly acts against autonomy in Kosovo and revokes autonomy in 1989. The province is renamed Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija in 1990. The Albanian community in Kosovo proclaims Kosovo in 1990 as a federal unit within Yugoslavia, but outside Serbia. In 1991 it declares itself independent as the Republic of Kosovo. This is not recognized by Yugoslavia. Ibrahim Rugova of the Lidhja Demokratike Te Kosovoës (Democratic League of Kosova, LDK) becomes the first president of Kosovo in the underground in 1991. The repression of the Albanese leads in 1999 to a foreign occupation and the establishment of an international administration of Kosovo in 2000. Serbia still claims Kosovo as part of Serbia. The United Nations appoint UN Administrators since 1999, who act since 2000 as Chairmen of the Interim Administrative Council. Kosovo becomes a parliamentary democratic entity in 2001. Since2002 Rugova becomes president of the entity of Kosovo. By Fatmir Curri"

—Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisG (talk • contribs) 13:10, 3 April 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Caucasus

Some historians, including Serbian, claim the Albanians originate from the Caucasus, particularly Caucasian Albania, but most historians dispute these claims.

This is absurd. Only cranks would support such a claim. How would Albanian get their words of Latin origin if they lived in the Caucasus? Wikipedia should not list all the things crank theories claim. NPOW 12:15, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I dispute the neutrality of this article because it fails to say who were the people that inhabited Kosovo before the Serbs arrived in the region. Even if now we can't be 100% certain about their exact identification, a NPOV discussion on the possibilities would be a good thing. NPOW 12:20, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Weasel words

"Albanian historians", "Romanian historians", "Serbian historians", "some estimates", 18 occurencies of the word "many", etc.

weasel words! NPOW 12:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Toponyms

Over 80% of Kosovan toponyms are Slavic and Serbian origin; starting with Kosovo, which root kos means "blackbird". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.198.226.117 (talk) 11:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

You do realize that Bulgaria and then the Byzantine empire invaded Kosovo first, right? Keep it Fake (talk) 04:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

This article, on a very disputed subject has no references! NPOW 12:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

LACK OF REFERENCES DETRIMENTAL TO THIS PAGE - Mister Greywolf 23 Jan 2007

The lack of references for this page seems extraordinary, and poorly serves anyone interested in learning more. Can the original author supply them?

The subject is about to become topical with the expected release of UN Special Envoy Martti Ahrisaari's recommendations on the future of Kosovo, probably in February 2007. If, as expected, the report recommends independence, this is bound to have major political repercussions for the whole Balkan region - not to mention that it is viewed as a test case of international thinking by numerous seperatist movements world-wide. This page can expect attention it is not up to.

There are no references for the history up to the 1980's or thereabouts, and then newspaper reports are cited, rather than histories. The exception is a refutation of a recent history by Noel Malcolm, published by a member of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Art - which Academy itself is accused of pursuing a Serb nationalist agenda from the mid-80's. Surely the author got his/her information from somewhere.

The three external links lead to obviously partisan accounts by the two major contending parties - Albanian and Serb, which seem little more than propaganda.

Obviously the history of Kosovo is highly contested by these parties with vested interests. This history has an immediate relevance in that the future of Kosovo is being decided now. As far as I can see there is no univerally accepted "definitive" history published, and it may be that no such history will be acceptable to all. Nonetheless, I would have expected to see something, and for further reading:

"Between Serb and Albanian: History of Kosovo" by Miranda Vickers

"Kosovo: A Short History" by Noel Malcolm

Both have been criticized, but equally, so have all other histories. Surely the article as it stands could at least acknowledge its sources.

Mister Greywolf 20:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LoL

Omg, this is really funny... If this is not neutral article, I don't know what article is..? If you want something to add, why can't you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mephistophilus (talk • contribs) 20:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Literatur

By Miranda Vickers
By Miranda Vickers

Miranda Vickers is a research student on Albanian history and a writer on Albanian affairs.
Copyright 1991 by History Today Ltd. Text may not be copied without the express written permission of History Today Ltd.
Vickers, M., What cost Kosova?., Vol. 41, History Today, 12-01-1991, pp 6.

citat: At the end of the 12th century, the great Serbian priest Stefan Nemanja with his army, penetrates all the way to Lipjan, and in 1170, at St. Pantin, on the left coast of [the river] Sitnica, close to Vuçitërn, defeats the Byzantine army. Since then, until the fall in Turkish control (1389), Kosova is a significant region of the Serbian Medieval state.” (Vojna enciklopedija, drugo izdanje, Beograd, 1972. - The Military Encyclopedia, second edition, Belgrade,1972.

219 years unter the Serbian Orthodox church (Not it!!! ther was the albanian trieber too).--Hipi Zhdripi 20:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

During the Turkish-Serbian war, 1877-78, the Serbian army progressed. Then came the retreat of migrated Albanians from the region of Toplica [Serbia], around Nis [Serbia] and Leskovac [Serbia]; they moved to Kosova and elsewhere.--Hipi Zhdripi 20:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

During the Yugoslav Kingdom, Kosova remained an agricultural land. Then came the colonization of Kosova with Serbs and Montenegrins. According to the data from this period, in only ten districts, 183,848 hectares of land were appropriated for the colonizers. The forced placement of a part of the settlers in homes of Albanian peasants and the confiscation of their plowable land complicated the situation in Kosova: entire villages rebelled, after which the army intervened, and a gap was created between the inhabitants and the government, so was an open enmity between the colonists and the old inhabitants.--Hipi Zhdripi 20:35, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

“The Albanian masses received the fall of the Yugoslav Kingdom as an easing of their position, and occupation as liberation from the enslavement of the Greater Serbian bourgeoisie.” (Vojna enciklopedija, drugo izd., Beograd, 1972. - The Military Encyclopedia, 2nd ed., Belgrade,1972).--Hipi Zhdripi 20:35, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This most be implmentyt in this articel

(Long contents by User:Hipi Zhdripi moved here: Talk:History of Kosovo/1 by Duja 14:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC).)

[edit] On the KLA

``The KLA launched a low-intensity guerrilla war characterised by regular bomb and gun attacks on Serbian security forces, state officials and civilians accused of "collaborating" with the Serbian government.``

- What a sentence. How dare you to write something like this? more than 2000 serbs killed and millions of dollars this terrorist group made through drug and people trafficking and you describe the group (KLA) as weak guerilla force. What a shame. Stop kosovar albanian extremism! Gianni ita 18:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, Gianni, more than 10000 Albanians are victims of the same war we are talking about. Do we call all Serbian police, military forces terrorists now? What do you think? And KLA did do that what Hipi mentioned above. A minority of them (as shown by the number of Hague tribunal indictees) has also been accused of crimes. It does not mean they are all terrorists. Try to be a bit more neutral. It is healthy, too. Ilir pz 19:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, i pointed out several times that the serbian police in kosovo did commit horrible crimes too. Don't try to fool me by saying that a minority of the KLA members are the only ones responsible. Drug and people trafficking is not a process that can be done only with a few people, it requires powerful ones, and it requires a larger number of people. And thank you for worrying about my health, i've never been better, how bout you? Gianni ita 21:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I am fine thanks. I haven't notice you having said anything about crimes commited on Albanians, but if that is the case, it is encouraging. I don't exclude any ex-KLA member to be doing that. They are humans, too (if you didnt know). You cannot say that about the whole group. The last Serbs I remember were killers with knives in my garden, druk and all painted. Do I consider all Serbs such now? You even have not met any, just read some Kosovo Coordination Centre leaflets.

Drug and people trafficking existed, exists, and will exist in all the Balkans. Don't tell me now that there is no such in Serbia?! Of course there is. Mafia exists in Sweden, too. None is labelling any specific organisation for that. There is no ideology that mafia carries out. Unless you want to blacken the whole picture over KLA, then go ahead. Ilir pz 21:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Why are you playing with my words? I never generalize people, and i don't think that all the Albanian Kosovars are mean people, I just know that 90% of KLA members are brainwashed killers and criminals. And the same thing about the majority of paramilitary serbian forces in Kosovo.

and about drug and people trafficking, well, you can say it is happening in the Balkan peninsula, but if you wanted to be more precise you would say that majority of these actions take place in Kosovo. I agree, mafia exists everywhere and will always exist, but the question is in what amount. that 'amount' in kosovo is pretty big. Gianni_ita 18:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] For the Rusian source

Is the best way to see the boock (I have in German) DER BALKAN, geschihte und Politik seit Alexander dem Grossen from Dorothea Grafin Razumovsky. The capitel Die Slawen kommen She is traing to say that Belisar it was a slaw. see her opinion in seid 80: Perheps the Belisar it was himself Slaw. Do you wan to take this als argument? He (Belisar) has didet 563 in fredom after he has maked war with the Hunen, after some mothe that the illyrien-romankristians was t not correct (far). Do you want that to put here als argument?. How you see from this propaganda boock, in this time the Bizantin was roulit from the peopel with birth place betwen (today) Prishtina and Nish. You are traig to say the World that these peope (Justian) who hase maked so many new citys in birth place (Kosovo area today) was so stupide and diden protect his birth place. Hahhahah ? - Hipi Zhdripi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hipi Zhdripi (talk • contribs) -using the IP 172.174.222.131 (talk · contribs)- 20:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Dont forget the peopel of Justians folk are working and living till today in Kosovo, one of them you are discussin with him. -- Hipi Zhdripi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hipi Zhdripi (talk • contribs) -using the IP 172.174.222.131 (talk · contribs)- 20:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

spam

this is not neutral at all ...the autor is trying to be neutral but he or she is NOT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.201.236.194 (talk • contribs) 18:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source

On the post 1999 section the article reads that:

However in November 2005, a United States Department of State official hinted that the independence is possible, just that the Albanians "have to prove that they're worthy of it" and that negotiations on the status of the province would begin in January 2006. [1]

I have a couple of comments on this text:

1. that an unnamed US State Department official says something isn't really weighty enough to warrant a place in an intl. encyclopedia
2. the quote (have to prove...) isn't sourced
3. negotiation on the future status of the province have already begun (not in Jan 2006)
4. the link to the Bulgarian newsservice is dead

While it would be in its place to inform the reader that Kosovo is likely to be given some sort of conditional independence (at least for a time), it should come from a better source and be properly sourced. It shouldn't be so hard to find.Osli73 21:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Listing of Population seems to be not NPOV

In the article Kosovo the population of Kosovo is listed as "It has a population of just over two million people, predominantly ethnic Albanians, with smaller populations of Serbs, Turks, Bosniaks, Romani people, and other ethnic groups." Whereas this article lists it as "Kosovo's population has been ethnically diverse over the years, with the province's complex ethnic map including Ladins, Turks, Roma, Bosniaks, Gorans, Jews, Janjevs, Serbs, and Albanians."

This latter list, from this article, seems to be distinctly not NPOV, listing Albanians last, relegated almost to an afterthought, rather than the predominant population.--Richardb43 (talk) 23:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)