Talk:Hiroshima (band)

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hiroshima (band) article.
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[edit] Size of koto

Does June Kuramoto always play the 13-string koto or does she also play the 17-string koto? Badagnani 23:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stub templates

The use of AsianAmerican-stub and LosAngeles-stub are highly inappropriate on this stub page. AsianAmerican-stub is never, ever used on band articles, just an similar templates such as AfricanAmerican-stub never are. Neither is a specific city stub ever used on a band article, unless that band is specifically sponsored/endorsed by a city, as would be the case if the band wasthe los Angeles brass Band or City of Los Angeles Symphony Orchestra. The only stub templates ever used on an article of this type would be a nationality-specific band-stub and possibly a genre-specific one. This can be quickly verified by checking the two categories for Asian American stubs and Los Angeles stubs, neither of which has articles for bands.

If you wish to mark this articles for your own WikiProject's use, then a stub template is not the most appropriate way to fdo this. the correct way to mark your article as being within the bounds of a specific Wikiproject is with a talk page banner template - as, indeed, is already used on this page, above. Grutness...wha? 07:05, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree. Stub tags on a given article should relate to their primary notability, and as they (at least presumptively) relate to the likely expertise of prospective editors. Tagging bands by "city they're from" and "ethnicity of members" is spectacularly inappropriate on either basis. Alai (talk) 17:30, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Strongly agree here with the remarks above for the most part. I could see an ethnicity/nationality stub being applied if the band limited themselves to Asian American music, but there doesn't appear to be such a genre as Asian American music. Caerwine Caer’s whines 17:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
One of the severest limitations of Wikipedia is editors making pronouncements when they don't know what they are talking about. It's always good to defer to editors who do. Asian American jazz. Badagnani (talk) 17:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Exactly my point. Grutness...wha? 23:45, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
The above comment makes no sense and is unhelpful to our project. The band is the seminal and most famous group of Asian American jazz. When proven wrong, please admit it, as I do when proven wrong, rather than making barbed comments that are unhelpful to our project. Badagnani (talk) 23:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
My comment makes perfect sense. My point is that rather than making pronouncements on what stubs do and do not do, it would have been wiser for you to research why and how stubs are used first. It is clear you didn't have any knowledge of why and how stubs are used, but now hopefully you will defer to editors who do know. And no, there's no need for you to admit that you are wrong - simply accepting that you are in this instance is perfectly fine. Grutness...wha? 00:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It makes no sense. Stub categories draw editors with a particular interest or expertise to that article, in order to expand it. It makes perfect sense to include an "Asian American" stub for that purpose. Blanking that stub does not enhance our project. More than one editor (yourself included) stated, quite mistakenly (despite the hyperbole that calling the group an Asian American band is "spectacularly wrong") that this group is not known for being Asian American. In fact, they are well known primarily for this, and even have an exhibit dedicated to this group in the Japanese American Museum in Los Angeles. You were wrong; now please replace the stub and admit your mistake, thanks. Badagnani (talk) 06:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
From WP's own stub guidelines: "stub categories attract experts in specific areas" ... "If an article overlaps several stub categories, more than one template may be used, but it is strongly recommended that only those relating to the subject's main notability be used. A limit of three or, if really necessary, four stub templates is advised." Badagnani (talk) 06:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
(reindenting to save confusion) No one has said that calling the band an Asian American band is spectacularly wrong. No-one has said that the band is not known for being Asian-American, either. This is not the first time you have claimed that people here have done things which we have not (I refer you to your claim that my edit summaries were all in capitals - a patent falsehood, though i ote that you didn't admit that when proven wrong). However, more that one stub-sorter has said that giving it AsianAmerican-stub is spectacularly inappropriate, which it is. Again, I ask you to have a look at the type of article which is in Cat:Asian American stubs. You will see no bands there, since it is incorrect to give bands stubs according to the race of the people involved in the band. Bands are stubbed according to their nation of origin (US) and their type of music (jazz). Thus, US-jazz-band-stub is the most appropriate stub type. Again, I ask you to consider what would happen if every band that was predominantly African American was given AfricanAmerican-stub. The category would be a nightmare. Yet there to claim that many of these bands are not widely known for being part of the African-American cultural community would be false. There is no connection between that and the fact that using that particular stub type would be highly inappropriate. And to maintain consistency it would be wrong - and racist - to assume that one racial group can have its stub type work in this way and not another. The band's main notability is as a band in every case - the race of the individuals within the band is of secondary notability only, and that is why it is stubbed as a band, in keeping with those guidelines (which I, Alai, and Caerwine know well, the three of us having been involved in the writing of them). If you wish to mark the article for your wikiproject, then do so with a banner talk page template (that's what they're for). I note that you did briefly mark this talk page with just such a template a couple of days back - you seem to have removed it primarily so as to continue this futile argument. I repeat: stub types are intended for use across wikipedia, not for individual wikiprojects; banner talk page templates are for use by your wikiproject. Use one. Grutness...wha? 21:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - Please read up on the subject before commenting. The "race" of the group is less important than their ethnicity, specifically as regards their compositions and instrumentation, which is often highly influenced by Asian traditional musics, and, thus, quite appropriate to mention them as an "Asian American jazz band." It's understandable that many editors wouldn't have known this, but if you had actually read the article and related ones carefully, you would have known (and you've had a few days to do this). Please restore the stub. Badagnani (talk) 21:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
And now you start making wild assumptions as to what I do and don't know about a band. FWIW, I don't necessarily like what I've heard of their music as much as I do that of several of the Brownswood Asian Jazz artists, but that's neither here nor there. My use of the word race was incorrect, the word that I was hunting for which momentarily evaded me was ethnicity, as you point out. Of course their music influenced by traditional Asian music, exactly as African-American bands are influenced by African traditional music (even though they may not play Nyatiti and Diddley bow). None of this makes the use of that particular stub tag any more appropriate. It is still the wrong tag to use on this article. Grutness...wha? 23:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC)