Talk:Hipgnosis

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This Pink Floyd-related article is within the scope of WikiProject Pink Floyd, a collaborative effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Pink Floyd, their members, associates, albums and songs. You can help! Visit the project page, discuss an article at the project talk-page, or even join us!
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.)
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

I added a partial list of works using http://www.sound.jp/hipgnosis/yapwall/yhip.html as a reference, not truly authoritative but much better than the zilch that was here before. We need:

  • links for the albums
  • to fix some of the artist links (I realize I was a bit sloppy)
  • verify years and spelling of the artists
  • flush out the catalog
  • a better history

Hipgnosis worked with some of the biggest bands of the 70's - at a time when "The Album" on the whole had a meaning. They deserve a well researched entry.

  • What about illustrator George Hardie? And I agree with above. Two Halves

Contents

[edit] Freeze Frame

I just added the Godley & Creme album Freeze Frame, which came out in 1979. This is definitely a Hipgnosis cover; it makes me suspicious that J Geils Band's album of the name is also credited to Hipgnosis. Grimhim 01:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right. The cover for the J. Geils Band album does not look at all like Hipgnosis's work. I removed it. -Freekee 16:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Richard Evans

People keep trying to make "Richard Evans" into a link. The rule is that we never link to a disambiguation page because following that link does not give us any useful information about the person - only a list of other people of that name. Until this Richard Evans gets his own article, please stop linking it. -Freekee 16:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] = Clean Up

i'd like to request a clean-up of the list of work they have done. i think all albums by one band should be grouped together as opposed to scattered, e.g. the led zeppelin albums. can someone please arrange them in alphabetical order by BAND not by title of album.
thanks. --Flvg94 22:44, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was good arranged by year. If you want to see it arranged by band, you could go the band's discography. -Freekee 03:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image...

I removed the fair-use warning boilerplate text from this talk page, as it is no longer relevant, since the images were deleted. -Freekee 20:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What genius....

What genius removed the images from this article? Hipgnosis was a graphic design outfit: To strip this article of examples of their work—some of which were iconic and thus notable—is to essentially gut the article. --TallulahBelle 02:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

User:Moe Epsilon did. Maybe you should ask him about it. -Freekee 03:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Don't readd copyright violations, do it again and I'll start handing out warnings for such. — Moe ε 04:56, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Oh, nice. -Freekee 05:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Would you please explain why the caption, "The Dark Side of the Moon — One of Hipgnosis' most famous album covers." underneath an image of the album cover does not constitute fair use? -Freekee 05:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter how famous it is, it's copyright. One sentence is not enough to apply fair use, you have to have significant commentary about the image to merit it's inclusion. Adding images here is like adding a discography to this article, which is strickly against WP:NONFREE and has been removed all over Wikipedia. — Moe ε 06:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. I think that giving an example of the work that is responsible for an artist's stardom is good enough. I'd replace the image and suggest you take the dispute to a higher court, but I'm sure that what drives people to serve in such a group is the desire to delete. -Freekee 23:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
If you want to discuss policy changes here on Wikipedia fine. But U.S. law cannot be changed by the likes of a conversation by yourself. Sorry. — Moe ε 01:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not talking about law. I'm talking about your interpretation of policy, which I don't believe there is broad consensus for, except among a certain group of editors who make it a point to do something according to their beliefs. -Freekee 03:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Well that general consensus is among the editors here at Wikipedia, and it is law, see the article on fair use, these kinds of things have to be taken seriously. — Moe ε 20:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
That's still not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about bias. -Freekee 21:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
But that's beside the point. Moe, what sort of thing could I say about the cover of DSOM, in order to make it a worthwhile addtion to the article? -Freekee 03:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
There would have to be a major article section about DSOTM in order for it do make fair use applicable. A single sentence or two saying that Hipgnosis made it, and it's iconic, doesn't cut it. A paragraph or two of why the picture is iconic, how Hipgnosis came up with the design, the popularity of the album in general, etc. should be discussed. — Moe ε 20:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
That sounds fair, but at this point, a major section would constitute a third of the article text. I would think a paragraph would be fine, and it wouldn't even have to be a long one, given it includes the info you suggest. I also think that the criterion (#8) is a little vague. Significance. Non-free media is not used unless it contributes significantly to an article. It needs to significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic in a way that words alone cannot. The article must create a need for the media such that its omission would be detrimental to the reader. The use of non-free media in lists, galleries, and navigational and user-interface elements is normally regarded as merely decorative, and is thus unacceptable. If I write it, and you disagree that it is enough, where do we go to resolve the dispute? -Freekee 21:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I read up on the issue of fair use—you do not have to have extensive commentary in the caption under the image for it to be fair use. The image's mere inclusion in the specific article (together with a basic label describing what it is and its relationship to the article id est "The cover of Dark Side of the Moon, one of Hipgnosis' most famous covers") is enough to indicate that the article itself is a commentary on the image.

Moe seems to be carrying fair-use to an extreme that detracts from the very rationale of the fair use concept. Under Moe's conception of it, what would constitute fair use? --TallulahBelle 19:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

His conception is described just above, in the comment that begins There would have to be. Myself, I go back and forth on it, between your opinion and his. There is a large number of editors who have feelings on the matter, and most of them feel you need some sort of explanation as to why the image is important. Unfortunately, when there's a dispute the deletionists usually seem to win. Moe seemed to think he's right because it's a matter of copyright law. But with that rationalization, I could say the same thing about my opinion. The only difference is that he's erring on the side of caution. I don't see the need for that much caution yet, and I don't see the consensus for that view that he does. Another thing that editors like him do, is delete something, forcing other editors to improve the article. <personal attack removed by — Moe ε at 06:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)> I disagree, and I think their feelings are either smugness or defensiveness. -Freekee 19:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Funny how the removal of the "personal attack" almost makes what I'm complaining sound like a good thing. Let me rephrase it: Some people seem to think that treating other editors badly is okay if it improves articles. -Freekee 04:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Did they make all of these album covers or not?

It states that Hipgnosis disbanded in 1983 and Storm Thorgerson went solo from then on. If that's the case why on earth are there album covers listed on Hipgnosis' page that exceed the date of the disbandment? All off those covers and extensively covered (with better formatting) in the Storm Thorgerson page, I struggle to see why covers that Hipgnosis had nothing to do with are listed here. Pinothyj (talk) 13:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. They should not be here. -Freekee (talk) 18:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale needed for Deceptive Bends album cover

Image has a fair use tag for the 10cc album, but not for this article. I don't know if the Hipgnosis article can justify fair use of the album image, but if you can see a way how, then please add (not substitute) a fair use tag at the image page for this article. Thanks. Grimhim (talk) 05:37, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch. I've added the FUR at the image page. I think it's a good use of fair use in the article, because it is specifically illustrating the standard style of the company (and says so) in the picture caption. -Freekee (talk) 16:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List in opening paragraph

There's a short list in the opening paragraph. Hipgnosis... specialized in creating cover art for... most notably Pink Floyd, Genesis, Led Zeppelin, and 10cc. Please, can we keep this from becoming a list of "my favorite bands"? Sometimes it seems like every kid who reads this, whose favorite band has a cover by Hipgnosis, adds that band to the list. Let's keep it short and to the point. I'd like to limit it to the bands with many covers, the most recognizable covers, and the ones that sold a lot of copies. Aside from the above bands, Bad Company and Alan Parsons Project might qualify, but I think four bands is enough. -Freekee (talk) 02:06, 2 May 2008 (UTC)