Talk:Hindustani classical music

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Pakistan which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Pakistan and Pakistan-related topics. For guidelines see WikiProject Pakistan and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

[edit] Who are Afghan Mughuls?

Afghan Mughuls? Who were they?

Anyone has a reference who the Afghan Mughuls were?

The Mughuls started from Timur i Lang who was Turk from his fathers side and Mongol from his Mother's. The Mughul rulers lived in exile in Afghanistan (Khorasan) whenever they lost India but went back. Are they called Afghan Mughuls as a result?

Next the Hazaras in Afghanistan are of Mongol origins. If Mughul here simply means Mongol, this implies Hazaras went to India to play music. Hazaras have no such traditions and there are no such records of Hazaras being a part of the Mughul court as musicians (or anywhere else in India).

I strongly feel the author typed 'Afghan' there for biased reasons.

[edit] Afghan Mughuls renamed as Mughals

I changed Afghan mughuls to Mughals. There is lot of changes need in Article Hindustani music. It is not good to write it was started at the court of Delhi sultanate. what ever be the heart of Hindustani music is Central India ie Madhyapradesh and Maharashtra. But all places in North India had classical music. and it floorished in the age of Tansen. Hrisforu 04:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Composers

This page need a list of composers of Hindustani classical music urgently!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.217.29.110 (talk) 14:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sitar players

Who are these - Pandit Habib Khan, Sanjoy Bandapadaya, Purbayan Chatterjee? Heard Purbayan but is he 1% of the greats mentioned and Never heard of the rest. How can their name be mentioned along with the greats??? If we allow this to happen every sitar-player accessing internet will add his or her name in the list for cheap publicity.

[edit] Harmonium

I'm no expert, but it's my understanding that harmoniums are not used in Hindustani classical music because its Western (equal-tempered) scale doesn't allow for the microtonal inflections which are key to the musicological system. All other instruments on the list either make no discrete pitch separations (i.e. fretless string instruments) or somehow allow for meend (glissando) (bending a sitar string down, rolling fingers off the stops on a shenai, etc.). Harmoniums are certainly used in various folk music forms present in India such as Qawwali and Kirtan, but my understanding is that they're far more accepted in more Persian-influenced styles. From the wiki harmonium entry: "The harmonium is essentially an alien instrument to the Indian tradition, as it cannot mimic the voice, which is considered the basis of all Indian music. Meend (glissando), an integral part of any classical recitation is not possible on the harmonium, and as such, one cannot faithfully reproduce the subtle nuances of a raga on this instrument. The harmonium is thus despised by many connoisseurs of Indian music, who prefer the more authentic yet more technical sarangi, in accompanying khyal singing." I will remove the harmonium from the wind instruments listed under "instrumental music", unless a more informed person can correct my impression and/or cite an example of harmonium in Hindustani classical performance. Also, can anyone cite reference of either banjo or piano being used in Hindustani classical? Those examples also seem suspect to me, for the same reason.

[edit] Hindustani music is not just "Hindu"stani.... Sikh Gurbani also shares a lot

This article makes it sound like Hindustani Classical is more about "Hindu"stani classical....There is some mention of Muslim rulers but more than 20 million people in the world who follow the Sikh Religion, also sing their praises to God in Hindustani music, and there is so much (for example, a few Ragas) in the "Gurbani Music" which is exclusive or was started in Gurbani Music. Granted, the Gurbani Music is "only" 500 years old, but limit of the reviewer's knowledge about it should not be the reason to exclude any mention of it from this article. Unfortunately I do not know enough about Gurbani Music myself to edit the article myself but i hope someone reads my post and finds more about it to add to the knowledge base on wiki.

Exactly as is said beneath this section, Gurbanis which belong to the Bhajan genre, are definitely not classical music. They inhabit a region somewhere between the semi-classical - folk music categories in the Indian music spectrum.

There is nothing specifically "Hindu"stani about this article. As a matter of fact, I personally added several names to the list, mostly Muslim - the Dagars (Fariduddin, Wasifuddin, Moinuddin, etc.)

Classical Indian music (I mean GENUINE classical) is Hindu in origin. That is a simple fact. They were performed in temples until around the time of the early Mughals whence they were gradually assimilated into the courts, where they were influenced by Persian music.

Thus, if we have left out anything Muslim/Persian aspects that are GENUINELY classical, let us know. Bhajans, and "Gurbani music" are definitely not acceptable for inclusion here, even if they are 500 years old. Why "Gurbani music"? Odissi music is twice as old (heard of the Gita Govinda?) and considered as a deeper form of semi-classical music, but is not being included here.

SDas 23:46, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] bhajan and Ghazal not classical

bhajan and ghazal are not classical. They can be mentioned as having classical influence. The whole paragraph about bhajan needs to be definately deleted. Not all bhajan is even semi-classical. The maharashtrian saints in the varakari parampara have nothing to do with classical hindustani music.

Also, somebody who knows the subject needs to write about the history. Saamveda was the earliest mention we know of music but that does not mean hindustani developed from Saamagaayana. That is just an effort to show off the long tradition of Indian classical. --Kaveri 20:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Bhajans and Ghazals needs to be fully removed. This article should contain only Dhrupad and Khayal from the Hindustani side (besides Carnatic). SDas 23:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for removing the paragraph on bhajans. In my opinion, ghazals should go too. Ghazals are not really classical either.

Also, the list of musicians is really too much. We should restrict the list. Sitar for instance should have only Vilayat Khan and Ravi Shankar, and perhaps 1-2 more. Bansuri should have only Chaurasia, Sarod only Ali Akbar Khan, Amjad Ali Khan etc. etc. Such a huge list adds no value to the article.

Once the list is trimmed down, I can add some dhrupadiyas too. That section lacks any list of musicians. SDas 05:16, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you should go ahead and edit it and may be leave a note on the talk page explaining what you did.

I hesitated to delete ghazal because in Pakistan that it is the route performers have taken to keep alive Classical music. So in a way it is like thumri. --Kaveri 19:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I think Ghazal should go. It is not really classical. (If Ghazals are included, then why not Qawwalis?)

SDas 20:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vocal Music

At present the vocal music section has too may names listed one after the other. Can we make ir more readable by arranging the names chronologically for eg. From the older generation following are the famous singers.... . x, y, z are the new generation singers. or somethng to that effect. Also, we can arrange them according to Gharana and their speciality like Thumri, Dhrupad etc. Can somebody more knowledgeable about all gharanas or all the performers try to rearrange the names. Just listing is of no value and also people keep adding names if it is just a list. --Kaveri 16:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that the list is way too long. A lot of those names I haven't heard of. We need not keep all the names.

Since I am only familiar with Dhrupad, I can arrange the Dhrupad musicians based on Gharana. (which is easy as they are mostly all Dagar!)

I also suggest having them arranged alphabetically. Maybe I'll take a first shot at it here.

ISSUE-1: Dhrupad can be both instrumental as well as vocal, although vocal is far more common. The way it is written, Dhrupad is a subsection under vocal only. Any suggestions?

ISSUE-2: Don't instrumentalists also play thumri? Vilayat Khan, Bismillah Khan, Vishamohan Bhatt, etc. do certainly have played thumris. Must those be sub-categories come under vocal music also?

ISSUE-3: Will the list of musicians only be restricted to current musicians, or will we include historical figures like Baiju Bawra, Baba Behram Khan Dagar, and Tansen?

(We can add another column to the table below called "Era" which can be "current", or "20^th century" or "circa. 1850" etc.)

ISSUE-4: Since in Dhrupad, Vanis are more accepted schools, not Gharanas, I replaced the last column in the table below with "School", and added Vani or Gharana to each entry.

SDas 21:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested arrangement of major artists

Artist	Instrument	Genre	School
Vishva Mohan Bhatt	Mohan Veena	Khayal	Maihar Gharānā
Uday Bhawalkar	Vocal	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Debu Chaudhury	Sitar	Khayal	Senia Gharānā
Bahauddin Dagar	Rudra Veena	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Zia Mohiuddin Dagar	Rudra Veena	Dhupad	Dāgar Vāni
Akhilesh Gundechā	Pakhāwaj	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Ramakant Gundechā	Vocal	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Umakant Gundechā	Vocal	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Ali Akbar Khan	Sarod	Khayal	Maihar Gharānā
Allauddin Khan	Sarod	Khayal	Maihar
Bade Ghulam Ali Khan	Vocal	Thumri	Patiala Gharānā
Hafiz Khan	Vocal	Dhrupad	Talwandi Gharānā (Khandar Vāni)
Imrat Khan	Sitar	Khayal	Imdadkhani Gharānā
Vilayat Khan	Sitar	Khayal	Imdadkhani Gharānā
Nancy Lesh	Cello	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Ram Chatur Mallick	Vocal	Dhrupad	Darbhangā Gharānā (Gohar Vāni)
Vidur Mallick	Vocal	Dhrupad	Darbhangā Gharānā (Gohar Vāni)
Indrakishore Mishra	Vocal	Dhrupad	Khandar Vāni
Bholanath Pathak	Vocal	Dhrupad	Betia Gharānā
Anil Pathak	Surbahar	Dhrupad	Pathak Gharānā
Ritwik Sanyal	Vocal	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Raja Chhatrapati Singh	Pakhāwaj	Dhrupad	Dāgar Vāni
Mian Tansen	Vocal	Dhrupad	Gohar Vāni

NOTE: ARRANGED ALPHABETICALLY BY LAST NAME. FIRST NAME USED IF LAST NAME IS THE SAME.

If you agree to this tabular arrangement, please insert more musicians into it!!

SDas 21:03, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taus (musical instrument)

Need article on the Taus (musical instrument). Badagnani (talk) 08:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)