Talk:Hindu Kush

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If Khud Kushi means self killing, so why keep on speaking Kushi, what does that mean to us, killing or happiness, there was nothing, kush means aasan in sanskrit, means seat, thats very clear, when afghanistan was ruled by last hindu dynasties, than kush meaning killing is baseless, it can be very clear mearger of persian and sanskrit, hindu meaning dweller of sindh and kush meaning seat. both you combine you get seat of deweller of sindh "Hindu - Kush", hindu is no religion, is no belief, its an combination of all people living the other side of hindu kush mountains, hind even means the behind, the back of anything in early romans, we should not refer hindus as any religion, rather we should refer is at nationalism, an unity of many small & big beliefs, came together, the aryans, the dravids, the local natives, all are part of it, we worship 5 elements as many other religions of the world, we worship brahm, " Nirankar", means the one who don't have any shape, who is everywere, the same ideology was adopted by islam many centuries later, the statue worship is basically from the dravids, the original native of india, later which was adopted by greeks as dfferent gods for different works and sections, there is no defination of Hinduism, rather we can only define it as an 'Union of several beliefs'. We should refer hinduism to unity of nation, we are not like islam or chirstans, we are like french and british, when world was learing about national unity in late part of 18 & 19th centuries, we the hindus already learned it thoushands of year back, that how people of different beliefs, different practises can live together under one common tag called HINDU, we should understand this, no matter from where our fore-fathers have migrated, we are teaching the world one thing, that Nationalism is most important, is most supreme, thats why few auspicious dates which belonged to arayans, are today worshipped by every indian and so it the dates of dravids, many festival which originally belonged to many different sects, are today celebrated by all of us, the gods of south are worshipped by people of north and god of north are worshipped by people of south, our fore fathers were so liberal that they found a way to live together and share common intrest to grow and flurish, thats why turks,afghans and islam was not able to destroy us after invading and ruling us and so did the christans failed to change our belief, only one thing kept us alive, the sprit of being together, being one, because we forgot our basic beliefs thoushands of years back and shared our comomon thoughts, before this place was called INDIA, before they refered us to HINDU-STANI, we were HINDU, the first name of our great country and world's greatest civilisation.


In persian, suicide mean Khud Kushi. that is self killing. That makes sense that Hindu Kush mean "hindu killer" or slayer of hindu's. Why is this such a sore point ? It is well known that when Muslims came to India they slaughtered millions of hindus under their "convert or die" regime. There are tomes written to verify this. Just look at Sikh literature.

i found something interesting today:

there was a 'kushan' people who invaded afghanistan, pakistan, and NW india.


kushan

the conflict over the meaning of the name 'hindu kush' is a conflict because of the modern conflicts between muslims and hindus in india and pakistan and within india.

the 'slave markets' in 'central asia' were thought to be muslim slave markets, and some people even say the Roma (gypsies) were the people removed from the area by the muslim slavers.

68.20.17.88 I think that the section claiming that Hindu Kush means Hindu-killer is riddled with errors, speculations, and fabrications. The Brittanica quote turned out to be fabricated, which casts doubt on the rest of it, so I tried to check the facts as stated but couldn't confirm any of it.

I noticed quite a few edits have been made on that section. I couldn't find the Brittanica quote either on the online E.B., but another source for the same quotation, http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html, does provide a reference (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th Ed, Vol.14, pp.238-240, 1987). Could anyone with access to this copy care to check? Ambarish | Talk 16:40, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Our local library had this older print version of the Encyclopedia Britannica still on the shelves, and yes, I can confirm this reference is, indeed, quoted as printed. As to where or how E.B. came upon this information themselves, I cannot comment. - fallout11

The supposed Americana quote has a subtle grammatical mistake:

The name means literally "Kills the Hindu,

should be

The name literally means "Kills the Hindu,

since the adverb "literally" is modifying the verb "means." Would a professional editor make a mistake like that?

For the only decent reference from googling that I can find (there are some cites at the bottom of the page): http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html The Brittanica version seems to have been pretty late, 1987, I think. As to what THEY based their research on, I do not know. I also do not have a copy of Brittanica, so I can not verify that those cites are actually correct. -Vina 20:08, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC) PS the Americana quote may have been "The name means, literally, "Kills the Hindu,". That is also grammatically correct. The original writer may have missed the commas.

OK, I think I'll wait until someone actually refers the EB 15th Ed.; if the quote *is* really there, I'd want to add it back. Ambarish | Talk 02:34, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I don't know about Brittanica, but the reference to Hindu Kush = Indian Killer appears to be attributed to Ibn Battutah. There's lots of passages quoting him on this on the internet, but I can find no original translation to confirm it. As for Brittanica, it is quite possible for it to have articles in early editions that have been edited out later, sometimes for assumed lack of interest; does not mean it is fabricated. Imc 22:24, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Encyclopaedia Americana does not support it as claimed. Encyclopaedia Americana appears to be defunct now, but I found the reference in Google cache. The reference was in an article about communalism. Contrary to the claim, it cites the "Hindu Kush" myth as a example of anti-Muslim communal polemic. Stanwatch 19:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

One theory that I have heard is this: The natives of Afghanistan resisted the coming of Islam for four centuries and defeated many invading Muslim armies, but in the end after 1000AD a big Muslim army overran the area and slaughtered so many Afghans to enforce Muslim rule and make the survivors convert to Islam, that these mountains were renamed "Hindu Kush" = "Slaughter of Hindus".

But "kush" is not a noun. And the history books have no record of this supposed slaughter of Hindus. Studies of gravestones show a very gradual transition to Muslim names over a period of many centuries. There was a slaughter of the population later, but that was a slaughter of Muslims by the (then non-Muslim) Mongols. But there is some evidence the name precedes even that slaughter.
This region was called "Caucasus Indicus" in ancient times. Just before the Muslim era, it was called "Kush" in a sixth-century Talmudic tractate. To distinguish this "Kush" from the more well-known Biblical Cush, it may have been named "Hindu Kush" (Indian Kush.)

KUS or KUSH means 'a side' in Parshian language (mostly used in conjenction with Right or Lift side). This mountain range is broadly on left side of Indian (Hindu) subcontinent unlike Vidhya, Sahinyadri and Himalaya mountain range. Hence 'a range which is on one side of Hindu land' is named as 'HINDUKUSH' by travelars from percian side towerds cental India.

The medieval inhabvitants of Afghanistan's Hindu Kush regions wern't hindu. Hindu wasn't even recognized as a religious designation until much later. The inhabitants around he indu Kush region were animists, zoroastarian, or buddhists mostly, except for the eastern region which was ruled by a Hindu Shahi dynasty (which again does not mean it was of Indian origin if the word "indian" is used in the modern sense). The word hindu itself in its proper usage demarcating ethnicity would in ancient times mean 1) inhabitants of the Indus Valley only 2) in medeival times as those from the subcontinent who were neither muslim nor buddhist. Hence any polythiest regardless of racial composition and regardless of whether they subscribed to the vedic sanata dharma or not.

Uh..have your ever heard of the Shahi dynasty of afghanistan? The one of the last Hindu dynasties before the islamic invasion. Don't that Ghandhari from the Mahabharata ruled was a Hindu. --Dangerous-Boy 08:38, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
India as it is commonly thought of today is an outgrowth of English colonialism, when what now comprises the "Indian subcontinent" was largely ruled by the British Crown, and was called "British India". "Back in the day", including when the references to Kush appear in the Talmud, the Indus river was the line that demarcated "the world", or as we think of it now, the "middle east" (although in those days, it was the east), from the terrifying and fascinating realms beyond...all of which was called India, hence the name "the indies" whence the name of the country "Indonesia", literally, Indian Islands. Why Talmudists may have chosen to refer to "the Indian Caucasus" as Kush, or Kush Hodu, rather than Qavqaz Hodu, is beyond me. Tomer TALK 22:59, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)


How could it be 'killer of hindus' when Hindu Shahis ruled Afgahnistan and northern indian sub continent and these areas were hindu dominated until about 1000 A.D, the name hindu-kush has been mentioned hundereds of years before that in middle-eastern texts. So it definitely doesn't mean 'kills hindus' even though some muslim zealots have claimed it in the past. As if it is something to brag about. Also, hindutva forces in India have carried this myth forward for their own selfish interest. wikipedialovesignorance, March 19, 2007

[edit] interesting link!

[1] --Dangerous-Boy 00:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of Hindu Kush

Hi, I wonder how "Hindu Kush" should be pronounced. In English at least the letter "u" is ambiguous. In particular I wonder if the u in Kush should be pronounced like the vowel in crucial, cushion, or crush. Thanks for your help. 206.168.224.66 16:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hindu Kush means Killer of Hindus

Hindu Kush means Killer of Hindus. This is an undisputable fact. The only people who dispute this are inferiority complex ridden Indians and Pakistanis who cannot accept how humiliated and subjugated their ancestors were at the hands of Muslim armies from the Middle East and from Central Asia. You can try to edit out the truth from this article on wikipedia, but all credible sources available elsewhere online and on print identify the meaning of Hindu Kush as Killer of Hindus. And indeed, this mountain range is and was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.12.107.88 (talk) 16:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Wow, here is a slavery supporter blowing his ancestors trumpet. Note-Wikipedia is not the place to 'blabber' about your ancestors.

Read this from 'The Travels of Ibn Battuta'

[edit] Social indicators in the Islamic kingdoms

The Travels of Ibn Battuta provides vital informations on various issues relating to society in his time.

Are you trying to shock and awe us? This is no worse then medieval Europe in the same time frame. Stop trying to frame something from the 1300s in terms of today's morality in order to support your racist arguments.

Widespread prevalence of Slavery especially the usage of women as Sex Slaves

  • "The inhabitants of this city make no effort to stamp out immorality -indeed, the same applies to the whole population of these regions. They buy beautiful Greek slave girls and put them out to prostitution and each girl has to pay a regular due to her master ........I was told that the qadi in this city himself owns slave girls employed in this way.[1]
  • "I bought in this city a Greek slave girl, a virgin, for forty gold dinars ".[2]
  • "I left it behind and set out with three of my companions, and a slave girl and two slave boys ".[3]
  • " and I had in my wagon three slave girls "[4]
  • "I had with me a slave girl, who was close to the time of her delivery, and I had intended to transp[ort her to Samarqand, so that she might have the child there."[5]
  • "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow. For upon this road there is a mountain called Hindukush, which means 'the slayer of the Indians 'because the slave boys and girls who are brought from the land of India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the great quantity of snow ".[6]
  • "On reaching Sind I followed this practice and bought horses, camels, white slaves and other goods.."".[7]

Forced Conversions to Islam

  • "And as for military commands, you know that the non Arabs were converted to Islam only at the point of the sword of the Arabs ".[8]

Destruction of the places of Worship of non Muslims

  • "He also fights with the infidels continually and keeps them under siege. It was his father who captured the city of Bursa from the hands of the Greeks and his tomb is in its mosque, which was formerly a church of the Christians."[3]
  • "The site was formely occupied by a budhkhanah, that is an idol temple, and was converted into a mosque on the conquest of the city." (referring to Delhi).[9]

Status of Indian Muslims as compared to Arab and Turkish Muslims

  • "The king of India, the Sultan Abu l Mujahid Muhammad Shah, makes a practice of honouring strangers and showing affection to them and singling them out for goverships or high dignities of state. The majority of his courtiers, palace officials, ministers of state, judges and relatives by marriage are foreigners, and he has issued a decree that foreigners are to be called in his country by the title of Aziz [honourable], so that this has become a proper name for them ".[10]

Jaziyah

  • "Most of the artisans there are Greek women, for in it there are many Greeks who are subject to the muslims and who pay dues to the sultan, including the Jaziyah " .[11]

Jihad

  • "He had war galleys with which he used to make raids on the environs of Constantinople the great and to seize prisoners and booty, then after spending it all in gifts and largesse he would go out again to the Jihad ".[12]

Infidels

  • "We lodged in the house of an old women, an infidel.".[13]

Sexuality

  • "He related also that the vagina of this Khatun has a conformation like a ring, and likewise all of those who are descendents of the woman mentioned. I never met, whether in the desert of Qifjaq or elsewhere, any person who said that he had seen a woman formed in this way, or heard tell of one other than this khatun -except, however that one of the inhabitants of China told me that in China there is a class of women with this conformation. But nothing like that ever came into my hands nor have I learned what truth there is in it."[14]

Conduct of war and prisoners

  • "We carried the heads of the slain (infidels ) to the castle of Abu Bak har, which we reached about midnight, and suspended them from the wall ".[15]
  1. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 106.
  2. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 111.
  3. ^ a b The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 113.
  4. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 137.
  5. ^ Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 141.
  6. ^ Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 146.
  7. ^ Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 151.
  8. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 189.
  9. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 163.
  10. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 150.
  11. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 105.
  12. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 104.
  13. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 115.
  14. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 125.
  15. ^ The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 157.

[edit] You Idiots!!!

Hindu Kush Means Really Good Weed!

[edit] Meaning of the word kusha in Sanskrit

The article mentions that the meaning of 'kusha' in Sanskrit is seat.

I looked it up on the Monier-Williams online Sanskrit dictionary, and out of the many meanings for 'kusha', seat is not one of them.

The most commonly used meaning is grass, the darbha used in Hindu religious ceremonies is made from kusha.

While one cannot rule out the possibility of grass mats also being referred to as kusha, 'The seat of the Hindus' refers to something like a throne or pedestal, which would surely not be made from grass. Secondly, considering the extreme climate in this region, I believe that the word kusha is not a reference to grass.

Ibn Battuta is a well-known traveller and historian, and I think that his version of the meaning of the range is the most plausible.

Would it be possible for someone to furnish a reference that defines kusha as seat in Sanskrit, failing which, could this be marked as requiring a citation? Belavkard (talk) 20:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with map

The map needs to actually state what the countries are. Badagnani (talk) 20:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Centre of population

How is it possible to define a centre of population of the world when longitude is measured from an arbitrary zero? On a map which had the Pacific in the middle instead of the Atlantic, the centre of population (or any other kind of centroid) would come in a completely different place. HairyDan (talk) 22:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not enough of a statistician or demographer to be sure, but the cited reference seems fairly clear. I think I'm summarizing it right when I say the following: take a point, measure the distance from that point to each person on the world (shortest distance along the surface, that is great circle distance), and add them up. The center of population is the point for which this measurement is the smallest. The article center of population doesn't really seem to clarify matters (in particular, whether the notion being discussed in that article deserves the term "center of population"). Kingdon (talk) 03:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Persian Kush

maybe in the persian section it should be mentioned that the word Kush is derived from the verb Kushtar - to slaughter or carnage. A Practical Dictionary of the Persian Language, by J.A.Boyle, Luzac & Co., p.129, 1949 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.94.148.233 (talk) 22:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)