Talk:Himnusz

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Wikipedian An individual covered by or significantly related to this article, Himnusz, has edited Wikipedia as
Korossyl (talk · contribs)

In the English Wikipedia, I think the English text should come first. Also, I think the primary article title should be in English - the non-English title should be a redirect. -- Dwheeler 09:24 22 May 2003 (UTC)

Not to mention the fact that Wikipedia is not a place to post source texts like this. --mav

Well, I am innocent M'Lord, I didn't create it, only seen the link from Hungary and since it looked ugly I de-uglified it.
I'll gladly move the English up (not that I would think you couldn't do it :)), but I cannot comment on its availability in Wikipedia. It was inserted by Mr. or Ms. 68.13.78.221 and probably s/he had a reason to do it. To me it seemed logical, but I haven't checked whether other country pages include their anthems or not.
Ok, I checked, see National anthem page and the country pages. They're widespread.
By the way it is not possible to put this into Hungarian language wikipedia since it don't and can't exist (until Gods have time to covert it, which is not RSN). --grin 10:52 22 May 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Hungarian -> Romanian

Quote: The tune of the Israeli national anthem (called Hatikvah) was significantly influenced by traditional Hungarian folk music.

Possibly, but Hatikvah is generally believed to have been based upon Romanian folk tunes. -- Picapica 16:36, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title of this article

Is there any reason why the title of this article is "Isten, áldd meg a magyart" instead of "Himnusz" (which currently redirects here)? — KovacsUr 21:50, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I have moved the page to its correct title. — KovacsUr 16:09, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually the correct title is Himnusz a magyar nép zivataros századaiból. (I bet not too many people call it that, though. :-) Alensha 21:02, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] First Verse, Literal Translation

In the first line, "a magyart" cannot be translated to "the Hungarians;" it's a single noun. The most direct, literal translation would be "the Hungarian." "The Hungarian" is an abstract concept, closer to "the nation of Hungary" than it is to "the Hungarians." In the third line, "feléje" indicates the direction; literally, "toward it;" "Extend your guarding arm" would have to come from "Nyújts védő kart." The second line is a bit trickier; "Jó kedvvel, bőséggel" is grammatically ambiguous. It could indeed refer to God blessing the Hungarian nation by giving it the traits of "grace and bounty;" it could also refer to God, in His grace and bounty, giving Hungary unnamed blessings. Either interpretation seems to be valid; it's no grounds to insult the translator.
There's also this consideration: Though both translations here are free, they're both also sourced and attributed. I'm not absolutely sure that they can (or should) be changed. I may be wrong about this point, though.
Korossyl 19:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

-- If there's no disagreement, then, I'm going to revert all the changes done to the translation. As said, I don't believe that it is fully legal to alter a sourced text - akin to changing a quotation. The quote may be wrong, but it's still the work of the author, so either the author should be contacted to change it, or it should be thrown out altogether. Due to the inadequacies (or rather, idiosyncracies) of the other translation, I believe the literal work adds significant value to the article. If there is disagreement on this point, let's discuss it here first.
Korossyl 18:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


I am referring to the literal translation, which I think is poor. But you're right to leave it as is, since it's a quote of someone else's work. This is what the first stanza means to me. You can take it or leave it. I think it's closer to literal:

God, (please) bless the Hungarian
(with) good humor and wealth/affluence
Reach toward (the Hungarian) with a protective hand,
if enemies threaten;

    --Now it gets tricky to translate, the words are literally: 
    left fate who past rips   and this is followed by:  
    bring on-top happy season --

It's an ill fate that tears at one from the past,
so bring (us) a happy season,
The people have paid for their sins
(Forgive them) for the past and (forebear them) in the future!

There's a lot in Hungarian that's "understood" and if I think it's "understood" but not literally there, I've placed it in parentheses. It's also a language with "formal/polite" and "casual/informal" forms of speech. Guess which one is used to talk to God? That's why I added "please" for example. Though the "please" would only be in the tone of voice.

--72.92.145.16 23:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how you translate ked as grace. "Jó kedvvel, bőséggel" would mean something along the lines of "With good mood and richness" or "With good cheer and abundance". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.6.154 (talk) 16:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Your translation of "Bal sors akit régen tép" is inaccurate. Word by word is translates as "Left fate whom long ago tear". Left in some languages is equivalent to Bad just as Right means good. Anyway a good translation of that line would be "Whom long ago was torn by bad fate". 65.102.202.63 17:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literal translation

I think there are a few mistakes in the translation.

  • "feléje" doesn't mean "toward", it means "over" ("föléje" in modern Hungarian)
  • "szánd meg" doesn't mean "redeem", it means "pity" - the translator doesn't seem to understand the poem
Actually, it means "award him with", here  Doc aberdeen  17:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
  • "Kunság" isn't the "plains of the Kuns", it's called "Cumania" in English
  • I don't think that "hő" means "cold".
Hő means "mere"  Doc aberdeen  17:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Lelkesa 16:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Um, huh? Besides that I've never heard those words defined as such, those definitions really don't seem to make much sense here... Korossyl 22:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Learn some Hungarian then come back. 65.102.202.63 17:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese transliteration and translation

匈奴国(马驾)国歌

http://bbs.xiongnu.net/viewtopic.php?t=105

http://www.pkucn.com/archiver/?tid-120228-page-3.html

天佑马驾(匈奴),降福乐.

助其正业,御强虏.

天数千载延大祚,将与好时运.

悲痛亦有时,悔误尽洗脱!

Isten, áldd meg a magyart

伊支丹敖德麦阿马驾 (天佑马驾)

Jó kedvvel, bôséggel,

优竭维被时校 (降福乐)

Nyújts feléje védô kart,

月迟发里耶微堆葛 (助其正业)

Ha küzd ellenséggel;

呵撅自爱兰时校 (御强虏)

Balsors, akit régen tép,

报硕士阿揭利干贴 (天数千古延大祚)

Hozz rá víg esztendôt,

霍思罗微改斯天夺 (将与好时遇)

Megbûnhôdte már e nép

麦弁活台马来聂 (悲痛亦有时)

A múltat s jövendôt! (1823)

阿暮拖尺约完夺 (悔误尽洗脱)

[edit] A real translation

Here is a real translation of the first stanza. Itt van egy igaz forditásat az első strófaról. God, bless the Hungarian, With good cheer and abundance, Extend towards them a defensive arm, If they struggle with the enemy; Who long ago was torn has a bad fate, Bring unto them a merry year, Suffered already for their sins this people, Of the past and future! 70.59.7.12 18:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literal Translation

I say this as the writer of the "literal translations" that appear on Himnusz, Szózat, and Nemzeti dal: I personally like them, and believe that they are the most literal possible. I am, however, sometimes wrong. The translation of the Himnusz, for instance, had some problems which were pointed out to me. After some debate, I had to agree I was wrong.
That's not the reason I oppose changes to these translations. Those are sourced and cited to me, and they appear on my website ([1], [2], and [3]). These ought to be treated as lengthy quotes, not general Wikipedia content. That is, they ought not to be changed. I know it sounds like I'm being egocentric or vain, but if they are changed, they can't carry my name. I don't want my name removed, either; any visitor to my site will think I stole and bastardized a translation from Wikipedia.
In other words, I'm kinda tired of defending these translations. If they're terrible, then remove them and replace them with something else. If they're just mediocre, at least they're more literal than the ones that Wikipedia has right now (Nemzeti dal doesn't even have one). But please, no more changes just to fix a minor error here or there; due to the circumstances, it's not possible.
These are quotes. Even if they're wrong, they shouldn't be changed, unless you can replace them with something better.
Korossyl (talk) 14:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)