Talk:Highway 407 (Ontario)
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Lots of Information can be found at www.407etr.com and I'm going to add a link to it from this page. That's where I got the 108km number from. The term freeway defines whether or not the highway is a free-flowing system where there are no crossroads. It does not mean that the highway is necessarily free to use. The term "Pay-per-Use Freeway" best defines the 407. Snickerdo
IMHO the 407 should connect to the 401 in the east Pellaken 01:10, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- By the time it hits 35/115, it will be pretty far north. Its supposed to meet just north of Orono. -Fizscy46 03:44, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Reasons for move: Hwy 407 is not provincially maintained. Earl Andrew 18:03, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Automatic number plate recognition
I was reading Automatic number plate recognition and thought of the 407. I didn't see any links between the articles, but I would assume that the 407 uses this technology, as it's supposed to be all digital. Anybody know? Greba 19:37, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- If the system works without cars having to have a transponder (as it must in order to be effective) then it must use ANPR. I've worked that into the article. violet/riga (t) 21:38, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Photos
FYI: Just came here for research, but I removed the photo of the ETR offices. The article doesn't mention them as it focuses on the highway itself. I don't like that other photo either though because it doesn't show anything specific to this highway. A good photo for this article would have an on-ramp or some singage. If people wanted to see what a regular, boring highway looked like they would look at the Highway article. Riiiight? --Mrtea 01:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] This paragraph needs to be removed
"Another billing problem is a lack of consolidated account information. For example, an account is only created and maintained if a driver uses a transponder. However if the transponder does not always operate ideally, an automatic plate identification will result in a "Video Toll Charge". This then creates a separate account, all of the additional costs required to maintain the separate account. Drivers with transponders will think they only have one account, which they pay and keep up-to-date, when in fact they have two, because of transponder malfunction. The second account rapidly mounts up fines due to non-payment, as the driver is unaware."
This is really more due to user carelessness than the 407's fault. The typical 407 vehicle operator has already driven on the 407 before, thus creating their plate account number, which can then be assigned to a transponder. Even if their transponder has some other account number (mine doesn't), it will be clearly marked on the bill.
Agreed. 24.150.251.130 01:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] A few changes
A number of changes were made to update the plate denial legal battles and to remove completely false information. For example, the highway is forced to meet provincial safety standards, there is no clause in the agreement preventing the Government from building competing routes, etc. That information is simply wrong.--Fairweathergta 03:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Facilities
- Are the bridges really necessary?
- Should the listed Maintenence Yards be noted by distance markers??
Bacl-presby 23:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Out of province billing?
With respect to out-of-province drivers on the 407 -- the article notes that several surrounding states (and Quebec) allow access to their driver databases for billing purposes. Do these governments also practice plate denial if said bills aren't paid?
--Plane nutz 15:12, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cost
The cost is listed as $100 billion dollars (sic). This sounds rather high - perhaps it should be 100 million?
[edit] Safety Concerns - Deletion of paragraph suggested
This paragraph sounds like it was written by someone with an axe to grind with the 407 organization. No references from the Geometric Design Standards for Ontario Highways are quoted and I cannot for the life of me understand the comment about conversion of a dual exit lane in Mississauga.
Regarding the Temporary Concrete Barrier use, I have to say that the original designers did not quite think things through on how to protect the median during each and every phase of the staged freeway widenings. The temporary concrete barrier is quite a safe and cost effective solution to the whole idea of staged median widenings.
And what's wrong with uding asphalt on the east and west extensions? If asphalt is bad then why is it used on millions of km of roadway to begin with?
I suggest this paragraph get deleted:
"Since the lease of the highway's operation, there has been a noticeable decrease in design standards, including straight-sided overpass structures (rather than the sloped design common on most provincial highways), the conversion of dual exit lanes to an exit lane and an additional travel lane in Mississauga rather than paying to widen the carriageway and maintaining two exit lanes, the reduction of the central median and the use of temporary concrete barriers rather than maintaining the median width, and the use of asphalt paving rather than concrete on the Burlington to Mississauga and Markham to Pickering sections. The freeway still adheres to minimum provincial government highway safety standards."
--142.242.34.248 20:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- Yes this paragraph is biased. It should be removed.
- I think the comment about a dual-lane exit being removed is referring to 407 westbound to Hurontario. It used to have what seemed to be, though untrue, two dedicated right lanes that exited to the ramp. However, this was only because the through lanes of the highway narrowed down from three to two at Hurontario. Now that the highway is four lanes all the way through that area, there was no need to have two lanes exiting to Hurontario and that is proven well by my daily observation -- there is no bottleneck there at afternoon rush hour.
- My daily observation of the temporary concrete median is that it has been extremely effective against hard collisions. It actually gives a bit, so that lessens the force of impact, which is a safety benefit. I have never seen gaps broken into it, and if gaps ever did occur, they can repair them very quickly. And besides, the only reason they installed these was to allow quick reconfiguration as they continued to add lanes (something by the way that this article does little to emphasize). As I write this, there still is room for one more lane -- in fact, the concrete is already poured, so in principle, that lane is already existing. To open that lane, all 407 needs to do is build a permanent concrete median on the centreline, fill in the inside shoulders with asphalt and safety grooving, and remove the temporary median. I see some small signs of engineering work being done already hinting that this will come very soon. Also, saying "rather than maintaining the median width" suggests that there is something fundamentally wrong with narrowing the median. If anything else, it is this statement that clearly shows the author's bias. The median was designed from the beginning to have enough room for lane additions!
- I would love to hear of a specific true bad example of a straight-edged bridge. These bridges can still be built with slopes and curves as long as they are not excessive. The technology is even used by MTO. The Mavis Rd and 401 bridge is a very good example -- and that was built by MTO. (So why single out and fault the 407?)
- The criticism of using asphalt is also very stretched. Sure, it is cheaper than concrete. However, you must remember that the Burlington to Missisauga stretch was engineered by MTO (originally intended to be their own Highway 403), not by 407, and 407 was simply complying to the design specifications! (407 would never have designed that stretch the way it is currently laid out, that is, without a wide median and no provision for future lighting.) Plus, in the concrete sections of 407 where they had recently added lanes, the added lanes were done in concrete as well, proving they're willing to spend the money to maintain a uniform road surface.
- Jstreutker (talk) 21:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Questions and Comments re Description Section
Some (most) of this is very minor, but may help improve the article.
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"The original section of Highway 407, between Highway 410 and Highway 404, is one of the better-designed freeways in the province of Ontario because of its recent design."
This sentence raises (in my mind at least) the question of why the later sections, of even MORE recent design, are not among "the better-designed freeways in the province of Ontario".
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"It was the first highway in almost thirty years since Highway 427 to be surfaced with concrete..." The first Ontario highway ???
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"which despite involving a costlier initial investment," How about: "which despite higher initial cost,"
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"lasts significantly longer and has better reflective capabilities (although motorists have a noisier ride)." Putting the disadvantages in parentheses makes it read like a commercial, IMHO.
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"Ontario styled asphalt wearing surface" What does Ontario styled mean?
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"some sections of the 407 are paved with asphalt instead of concrete since these sections opened much later " Why so, if concrete is better overall? Or was it decided that it was not better overall?
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"only 4 lamps are needed" 4 per mast, presumably.
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"The 407 (along with other recent suburban and rural Ontario freeways) has been designed with aesthetics in mind," The part in parentheses seems like a commercial. Is there a reference about the aesthetics? Having driven the highway, my general impression is that it was intended to be clear, flat, easy to plow, designed for unobstructed vision. The idea that it was aesthetic in any way had never occurred to me.
- - - Wanderer57 21:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Question re Safety Concerns section
"Since the lease of the highway's operation, there has been a noticeable decrease in design standards,"
Seems to me a decrease in design standards relates to construction, not to operation. ???
Also, was it leased or sold? Elsewhere in the article, it says "sale". Wanderer57 21:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- The highway was leased for 99 years. From my point of view, it was effectively sold, as I'll never see the end of the lease. But legally, it is a lease.--Plane nutz 20:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
