Talk:Hidden message

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[edit] Pattern Recognition

This sidebar looks inappropriate in a scientific article. Consider removing the pattern recognition element.--Adoniscik (talk) 06:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Backmasking" is incorrect... but?

The first line of the article states that "backmasking" is not a correct term for backwards messages, but the term is then used throughout the rest of the article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.97.178.151 (talk • contribs)

fixed. TheJabberwock 21:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Backward messages in logos

Is there already a article about backward messages in graphics? For example, if you flip the Coca-Cola logo, you supposedly get a arabic word about how bad allah is, or something. There are also Ambigrams, which can be flipped (and usually read the same as in correct order). Another example is Lucky Strike's old cigarette packaging, which, when rotated "clearly" shows a burning house, accompaning the Japan-flag Red Dot and the trademark phrase "it's toasted".

Thanks, --Abdull 20:24, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Added. TheJabberwock 04:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The ship on [old?] bottles of 'Molson Export' (a Canadian beer) very clearly resembles an armadillo when rotated 90 degrees. The funny thing is that this was pointed out to me in university by a girl on acid (under the influence of the hallucinogen LSD and/or others) and it was true. 69.49.44.11 15:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Empty Spaces

"Please send your answer to Old Pink, care of the funny farm, Chalfont," which refers to former lead singer Syd Barrett, who suffered a breakdown years earlier."

Two problems with this: One, I doubt Floyd would make light of Syd's situation in this manner considering their remorse towards the current condition of their former frontman.

Two, I've never seen this anywhere, so I'm wondering exactly where this might come from in the first place. Keep in mind, it's a nonsense backward lyric, so it doesn't necessarily have to have a meaning behind it. That link reeks of trying to find meaning which simply doesn't appear to have any basis in the truth. Charles M. Reed July 8, 2005 03:26 (UTC)

The "they're talking about Syd" thing was widely assumed and passed on at the time I heard the message, which was about 1990, courtesy of a friend excited about his new sound-sampling software. There are web pages which claim that band-members have confirmed this in interview, but they don't cite the interviews.
In fairness, I should note that around the same time we believed that eating whole nutmegs would kill you, and that it was feasible to get high on banana strings. We may have been misinformed on all three.
Finally, the article is missing the message itself! After the introduction comes the message. It's fainter than the introduction, and is simply someone calling out, "Roger, Carolyne's on the phone". (Carolyne was the name of Roger Waters' wife.)
--Telsa
The relevant message is no longer in the article. TheJabberwock 22:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] klumphue

Her kan det stå noe norsomt. -catweasel


This section of empty spaces is actually clearly audible, as he recorded it backwards, and just placed it in the song, but at a lower volume.

lol yea seriously, does anyone even try these things? i know i do. get a copy of the music, get a copy of cooledit pro and get crackin with reverse action :) --da404LewZer 23:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not including every single example

I think we've established that most rock bands, as well as other forms of media, have played around with backward messages or been accused of adding backward messages. The listing of bands and pop-culture experiments is huge; I think it should be deleted (or moved to an Examples of backward messages; I don't see a huge amount of value there, but it's evident that people find it interesting) so that the main themes of the article don't get buried under a hoard of examples.--Prosfilaes 21:54, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Here's another good source for backmasking clips: [1] CoolKatt number 9999 06:23, 17 August 2005

So yes, this article is very very long. I propose starting a new article "List of examples of backwards messages" and moving all of the examples there, broken up into the same categories as here (alleged, deliberate, parody), and sorted neatly by some criteria (either date or artist). A few revealing examples, at most 2 for each type, should be kept on this page and the rest replaced by a link to the new list article. Comments? Objections? In particular is there a better title for the list article? The one I proposed seems clunky. -- Tyler 22:24, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree, split to a diff article and link to it. --68.94.47.235 05:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Prosfilaes in that there are many examples of backwards messages not listed in the article. However, I don’t believe the article should be split into two separate pages. Perhaps the top portion of the article would note the history and characteristics of backwards messages, while the bottom section of the article would have a list (as comprehensive as possible) of known backwards messages (both intentional and questionable).--Governorchavez 19:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree, sometimes people like to know 'interesting facts' ya know?? i mean i do.. So what if i know that led zep had some backmask action (i mean c'mon seriously folks), at least it's better than talking about the next 'survivor' ;) --da404LewZer 23:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Done: List of backward messages. TheJabberwock 22:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missy Elliot

May be worth adding to the proposed "examples" section - the song "Work It" by Missy Elliot prominently features reversed speech in its chorus. When reversed, it is simply a repeat of the previous line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamiemcc (talk • contribs)

Done. TheJabberwock 22:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neil Armstrong

Supposedly when Neil armstrong's quote about one small step for man is played backwards it says Man Will Space walk... Can someone confirm this? Drstrangeluv

"Good luck, Mr. Gorsky..." 81.232.72.148 17:53, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Seems bogus, since Armstrong would have had to practice speaking the quote normally while still creating a backwards message. TheJabberwock 22:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kiss kiss kiss

Yoko Ono's song "Kiss kiss kiss" becomes "six six six" backwards... =D 81.232.72.148 17:53, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

LOL; I added it to List of backward messages. TheJabberwock 22:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mucha Lucha

In the Mucha Lucha movie "The return of El Malefico," Ricochet reads from the code of Mask Wrestling backwards because of a dare. Does anybody have this movie and the proper tools to reverse what he recites? If so, I would love to hear what the speech reads reversed. It's obviously a parody message.

[edit] Backmasking vs. backward speech

I have seen backmasking defined as "intentional backward messages." This distinction is not made in this article.

I have NOT seen this defined as such, but i agree. In my opinion, simply reversing something is what it is. reversing audio sounds like complete random gibberish played forwards. Missy Eliots 'backmask' shouldn't be considered a backmask because obviously no work went into it. Led Zep. on the other hand, his lyrics are pretty much understandable in BOTH directions. this is what i would call backmasking. Anything that has a message in both directions. Otherwise it's just being played backwards. whoopty-doo. --da404LewZer 00:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to split of Backmasking to address this concern. TheJabberwock 22:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged v. Known?

How can "Stairway to Heaven" allegedly have backward messages, and then also be known to. If it's known to, it's past alleged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Capitan Obvio (talk • contribs)

It's alleged, not known. TheJabberwock 22:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous

In Kiss, Kiss, Kiss by Yoko Ono she says "i shot John Lennon" and in Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven" they say "bring back hitler now and suddenly"

Are these true? They look suspicious. Citation? 218.102.218.7 15:11, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I took out this sentence from the "Deliberate Backmasking" sentence: Also, in the theme song for Kingdom Hearts II, "Passion ~single version~", by Utada Hikaru, parts of the song sound like, when played backwards, "I need more affection than you know."

It's gramatically questionable, it's in an awkward location, and it's not even clear if it is accidental or deliberate.

Indeed, it IS intentional, as it plays a role in the game Kingdom Hearts 2. I, however, see nothing grammatically incorrect with it.


Probably should put in a section about the message in doom2 level 30 (?) with the backward message there (a bit of fun in the otherwise serious article).

Novacatz 06:18, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)


what about "paul is the walrus"?

what about five iron frenzy's "brad is dead, let's kill brad" on their album, quantitiy is job one, between the track "the untimely death of brad" and the one before it?

what about iron butterfly's "you will all die" in in-a-godda-da-vida (which makes sense since it's gibberish forwards, so they could have recorded it backwards, listened to it, and then written down what it sounded like backwards and re-sang it so that it wouldn't sound like backmasking)?

I removed the section on Ozzy Osbourne because it wasn't clear that this lawsuit involved backwards messagess. If it did it really should be put back in. Rmhermen 19:14 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)

calling a song "suicide solution" sounds like a forwards message! -- Tarquin
Upon doing a Web search, I found that the reference was mistaken: it was actually a Judas Priest song, and supposedly it did indeed involve backward messages. However, the suit was lost and the band won.

Wasn't Genesis questioned for the alleged messages "it's fun to smoke mariuhana" and "do it"? I think the case was dismissed when they proved you could also find other "messages" like "could I have a peppermint". // Liftarn

Not genesis, I think it was Queen's "another one bites the dust" that said "it's fun to smoke mariuhana" 67.168.34.86 02:15, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC);

Backmasking is a great concern in some conservative Christian circles.

What conservatives say this and why?

When a particular phrase was cited beforehand and the subjects prompted to listen for it, 90% were able to hear it, even though the sound passage was or was not intentionally recorded.

What? Is the "was or was not" a mistake or does it mean "whether it was or was not"?

--Furrykef 05:18, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm a little concerned about the comment that conservative Christians are undereducated. It sounds pretty POV to me. Mpolo 08:17, Aug 14, 2004 (UTC)

Check the link that I provide in the article to Fundamentalism which has a section about how suspicious Conservative Christians are of any form of Scholarship. I'm actually a Conservative Christian myself and a suspicion of the intellect is one of my pet hates among my fellow Christians. I qualified the statement in the article that it was mainly Conservative Christians in the US that are more likely to be undereducated. In my country - Australia - we Conservative Christians are generally more educated than the average person. One Salient Oversight 08:41, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Suspicious of academia", however, is not the same as undereducated. I think that it would be difficult to prove empirically that the average grade level completed is, say, 15% lower for conservative Christians than it is for all other identifiable groups. Indeed, most vocal conservative Christians finish high school or even university studies. There might be a point about the "flocks", but I'd prefer something on the lines of: Many conservative Christians tend to be suspicious of secular scholarship, particularly if it might seem to conflict with some tenet of their faith..." This avoids calling them dumb and gives some motivation for the statement. Mpolo 10:03, Aug 14, 2004 (UTC)
I do remember reading some empirical studies that confirmed the assertion that Conservative Protestant Christians in the United States have a lower than average level of educational attainment. Do I remember where and when the study was done? Unfortunately no but I will do some research on the net for this. I suppose one general level of indication is to examine which States of the United States have above-average levels of Church attendance and below-average levels of educational attainment. I'm willing to bet that states like Texas, Alabama and Missisippi show high church attendance and low education, while States like Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont show low Church attendance and higher educational attainment. Not empirical evidence but certainly indicatory. I'll find a reference to back me up. One Salient Oversight 03:29, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I've removed the "lower level of education" line until it can be substantiated. Without a reference, it's at the least POV and at the worst inflammatory. Tyler 19:00, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm concerned that the section might still be POV/inflammatory. I'm not a conservative Christian, but the suggestion that most of them believe in "the supernatural" might be construed as meaning that they believe in "pagan rituals". I might suggest that a word besides "supernatural" be used to describe Satan. The details are a bit unclear to me, but I could definitely see the section being interpreted as anti-conservative Christian. It seems to suggest that they are unintelligent, superstitious, or close-minded. If they do believe in the supernatural, we (ironically) need some empirical studies to support it, and if it's not true it should be changed. I'll take a shot at it, there are some other areas that need grammar cleaned up. --Jacius 21:31, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If you actually listen to the backwards version of Stairway to Heaven, "my sweet Satan" is pretty clear, even if it is accidental. The rest of the phrase that's supposed to be there is just gibberish, but that part's there. --Prosfilaes 10:05, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree with prosfilaes... plus, on the main page there is a link where the song has been played backwards. give it a shot, you'll see... i mean, hear. although, just because it includes the word 'satan' and sounds a little morbid, doesn't mean its roots are satanic. --aditya mukherjee 07:42, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I remember when I tried it a few years ago. I popped in Led Zeppelin IV into my CD-Rom drive and played STH. I recorded the song onto my HDD and then used the audio software to reverse the song. I got the required part... and couldn't understand anything at all. I then went to a backmasking website and it showed me where it was located. Although it sounded as though it could be "my sweet satan", it was only after I had viewed the website that it appeared to be clearer. My point is that it is essentially gibberish, and was given phonetic meaning by someone who listened to it backwards. Try it. Play the section backwards to someone who is not familiar with the "My sweet Satan" idea. Make sure you play it to them with no knowledge of what they are about to hear. Then ask them if they heard anything that sounded satanic or blasphemous - I guarantee you that they won't. One Salient Oversight 08:13, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] mostly rumours

reads mostly like rumours someone googled or got from a friend of a friend ... furthermore it's inconsistent and overall a poorly structured article. at the very least before one writes "A is a song with backward messages hidden" one should try to verify it and cite song, album, release date and timings.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Holle (talk • contribs)

I accept that criticism. Why don't you go ahead and fix it? TheJabberwock 21:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Lanphier

The Bill Lanphier reference ("Artistic backmasking") refers to a song noted on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mapsax (talk • contribs)

Thanks, I added a link. TheJabberwock 23:16, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Webdings/Wingdings

The text "NYC" in Webdings and Wingdings should be replaced with images for computers without these fonts.

Blakeops 16:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Want to do it? Just take a screen capture and upload it. Λυδαcιτγ 22:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Crop it first, of course. Λυδαcιτγ 22:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please don't use Rorschach inkblot images publicly

As a psychologist who administers the Rorschach inkblot test, I want to express my concern about the use of one of the official Rorschach cards as the main picture for this and many other pages (relating to subliminal thought). These cards are not to be displayed publicly in any way because they obstruct the validity of the test. If someone takes this test after having previously seen even one of the images elsewhere, their protocol is spoiled (For this test was normed with individuals who were seeing the cards for the first time, thus eliciting a "fresh" response). If an image of an inkblot must be used, there are plenty of Inkblots that aren't part of the ten card Rorschach inkblot test. 71.141.237.95 00:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Dr. Atlas 71.141.237.95 00:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Check This Out

normal: Q33 NY


Wingdings: Q33 NY

A Secret Message Of 9/11?

See Talk:Pareidolia#Rorschach inkblots shouldn't be public. Λυδαcιτγ 00:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:CocaColaHiddenPicture.jpg

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BetacommandBot 04:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)