Talk:Hidden Ivies: Thirty Colleges of Excellence/Archive 1

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1 Barnard Again, But This Is the Truth
2 Mathematically challenged
3 Barnard
4 How to be NPOV?
5 Williams excluded beacause of size?

Barnard Again, But This Is the Truth

The Ivy League is actually only defined by a sports league agreement. Thus, because Barnard and Columbia athletics are one and the same, Barnard is an Ivy school. Also, Barnard does not actually grant degrees. Barnard graduates receive a Columbia University (an Ivy) diploma with a Barnard sticker. The sticker is actually just a recent addition anyway--by the current President, Judith Shapiro. Just ask the school, Barnard students are, in fact, Ivy League, much to the chagrin of a few Columbia College rivals. Also, Barnard is generally proud to (truthfully) proclaim itself the only school that is BOTH a Seven Sister and an Ivy. Sorry, Classicfilms, check your facts again.

Hi I own the book called Hidden Ivies and it does not actually cover any public schools instead it talks about thirty schools that Howard Greene and Matthew Greene researched. So I'am going to create another article. -—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Astuishin (talk • contribs) .

Mathematically challenged

The list of colleges only has 29 items. Is Radcliffe supposed to be on the list, even though it really is part of the Ivy League? Furthermore, 14 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 28. In what region(s) of the country are the other two? Could someone with access to the book please fix the article so the numbers add up? --Rob Kennedy 05:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I have read the book and will make updates. -Classicfilms 15:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Barnard

Barnard? Really? It's part of (ahem, "affiliated with", as they say there) Columbia University, an Ivy League school. I guess the authors of the book didn't do adequate research. --Nelson Ricardo 01:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Barnard College, was established as, and still is, an independent women's college and is a member of the Seven Sisters (colleges). Though affiliated with Columbia University, it is not a part of the Ivy League and thus belongs on this list. -Classicfilms 06:07, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I say the whole "independent" thing is a bunch of hooey. Their URL is http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/. (www.barnard.edu does work, but leaving off www does not even redirect.) --Nelson Ricardo 10:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

How to be NPOV?

Someone changed "while not often being thought of as the most prestigious schools in the country ("Hidden")" to "at the liberal arts college level." While I agree the former is much more POV, the second one is factually inaccurate. These are not only liberal arts colleges. For example, Rice, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Emory, Wake Forest, Wash U (which by the way is not referred to as Washington University; should be either Wash U, WUSTL, or Washington University in St. Louis) are all research universities. That is, they are NOT liberal arts colleges. I think it needs to be mentioned in the lead that the schools on this list are not traditionally thought of as the creme of the crop. That is why the list does not include schools like Stanford and MIT, that are not in the Ivy League, but have been seen as historically having academics similar to the Ivy League. Thoughts on how to rephrase? -Bluedog423^Talk 02:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

What wording does the book use to distinguish the schools it lists from the rest? This is an article about a book, after all. (For that matter, what makes this book noteworthy, anyway?) --Rob Kennedy 04:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Calm down Bluedog, this is just an article about a popular college reference book, not an opportunity to to speculate why the authors decided to include the colleges that where evaluated in their text. Also as a former professor at Washington University it is often referred to as Washington University, and it is only the prerogative of the marketing department to have St. Louis included in the name.Astuishin 08:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought my wording was quite calm, but apparently it was perceived differently. Sorry about that, as I did not intend to ruffle any feathers. Thanks for the clarification about Wash U. I was definitely unaware of that. I, too, somewhat agree with Rob Kennedy as to why this article even exists. It seems somewhat of a promotional tool. -Bluedog423^Talk 04:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Williams excluded beacause of size?

Block quote

With an enrollment around 2,000, Williams is smaller than several of the universities on this list, and I'm guessing at most 25% larger than these other elite national liberal arts colleges. So did the authors really state this in the book?! Hillsboro 18:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)