Talk:Hibernian F.C.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good articles Hibernian F.C. has been listed as a good article under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do, and if it no longer meets these criteria, it can be delisted or reassessed.

Review: June 11, 2008.
WikiProject on Football
Association football Portal
The article on Hibernian F.C. is supported by the WikiProject on Football, which is an attempt to improve the quality and coverage of Association football related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page; if you have any questions about the project or the article ratings below, please consult the FAQ.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hibernian F.C. article.
Article policies

Contents

[edit] Squad numbers

Has it been confirmed that Kerr and Donaldson have recieved numbers 8 & 9 for the forthcoming season?

[edit] Home strip changs?

It is possible someone could create a listing of different home strip designs over the years similar to the one on the Dundee United page?

[edit] Ummm

Someone should correct this back to NPOV, its got loads of problems Anshu

[edit] Vandalism to this page

This is getting ridiculous. Three instances of vandalism in the last few hours. Guinnog 17:42, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Got it on my watchlist, G - you're not alone. However, a couple of weeks ago the Celtic page was getting vandalised once a minute, so no need to panic yet :) Camillus (talk) 23:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reassurance,;)Guinnog 00:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

Well - there's not much of it in this article! No Gordon Smith, Lawrie Reilly, Joe Baker or Pat Stanton. Will see what I can do, time permitting. Exile 19:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

  • I think it's better now, but the history could do with details about participation in Europe during the 60s and 70s, when Hibs played a lot of famous clubs and beat some of them, eg Napoli 5-0 with Dino Zoff in goal. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 18:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mess

Needs some serious attendance.

You've got the Tony Mowbray era...which leads to a section on the 2004/05 season that starts "These policies were rewarded..."

What policies? Are we supposed to guess? If you're talking about Mowbray's "style" of managment etc, put it in his era section. Snowbound 01:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hibernian FC

Would it be beyond the realms of fantasy to suggest that the Hibernian FC club historian edits the page?

  • Given how notoriously uncommunicative HFC are, yes.

Daily Record: [Rod Petrie is] intransigent, awkward, stubborn and at times, according to those with whom he does his business, almost impossible to deal with. From a media point of view the man is a nightmare given his reluctance to co-operate or even come to the phone. He runs his football club like a recluse. A modern-day prospector.

Jmorrison230582 (talk) 19:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unofficial supporter links removed

I noticed several unofficial Hibernian supporter web site links have been removed. Why is this? C.J. 20:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] European Cup participation 1955/56

Sources I have read (such as 'The Official History of Aberdeen Football Club' by Jack Webster) state that Hibs were the team chosen by the Scottish FA to enter the European Cup because of their Chairman's role in supporting the adoption of the competition, not because the other teams declined an invitation. Ninja-lewis 13:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Please can you cite a date. 1956 is not accurate enough. Birmingham City played Internazionale in the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup on Tuesday May 15th 1956 - is the Hibs match earlier than this? I have never seen a specific date. See http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/European/1950s/ICFC1955-58.html. Thanks. 80.195.27.120 20:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to log in - I'm not an anonymous editor. WBluejohn 20:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
OK. All sorted, I'm happy now. Hibernian played Essen on 14th Sep 1955. You can cite this now :-) here is the link to the site with dates. http://www.angelfire.com/nj/sivritepe/5556/ecc.html. WBluejohn 21:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I didn't make myself clearer. I was referring to

Hibernian were the first British club to appear in European competition, in its inaugural 1955/56 season. Hibernian's participation had little to do with qualification as they accepted the invitation to European competition that was declined by the four teams that finished above them in the Scottish League.

However, the official history of Aberdeen Football Club (who were Scottish Champions in 1954/1955 and thus should have been the team chosen) and their club website state that Hibs participated in the 1955/56 European Cup because of the lobbying of their chairman rather than because the teams above them in the League declined the invitation. Unless there is a source to back up the story in the article at the moment, I will change it and add a citation to the Aberdeen site. Ninja-lewis 17:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The first competition didn't stipulate that the nominations by national FAs had to be the reigning champions, so the SFA were within their rights not to select Aberdeen to participate. However, I agree that the section about clubs above Hibs in the League rejecting the chance to play is incorrect. Hibs chairman Harry Swan was the incumbent SFA President and this seems to have had a big role in the selection of Hibs for the first tournament. This Scotsman article is another supporting source. Caledonian Place 18:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

This article looks very biased. Definitely looks like a lot of it was written by a hearts fan.

Agreed. There is frequent referral to the "100 years" Scottish Cup jinx, which is not something Hibs fans are proud of. =[

[edit] SPL winners

I noticed that Hibernian FC won the SPL cup for the 2006 to 2007 season. But it is not updated under the logo. It say placed 4 for the 2005-2006 season.

There are three main competitions in Scottish football: the Scottish Premier League (a league format where 12 teams play each other multiple times), the Scottish Cup (a knockout tournament) and the Scottish League Cup (another knockout tournament). Hibs won the Scottish League Cup in 2007. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hibernian logo.gif

Image:Hibernian logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rebus

In Ian Rankin's "Mortal Causes", it's alleged that Rebus is a Hearts supporter. I haven't come across any reference to Raith Rovers though. As for the SMG production, Rebus is not only portrayed as a Hibs supporter but as a Roman Catholic. Millbanks 08:26, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History & Celtic

Removed the explanation for the name of Celtic, who cares? This is a Hibs page, not one for the glorification of Celtic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by God Save the Tsar (talk • contribs) 02:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Billy McNeill

I can find no record of Billy McNeill being in temporary charce of the club. I propose his name be removed from the list of managers.Paul210 (talk) 17:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The tooshort tag

Whose bright idea was it to add the tooshort tag? The intro seems just fine to me and it was apparently not discussed here, so I am removing the tag until a proper reasoning will be provided here. (Or is it just vandalism?) C.J. (talk) 01:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:LEAD#Length. Three sentences is not an acceptable intro length for a ~40k article. The lead should serve as an adequate summary of the whole article, not just give the club's name and current position. And less of the vandalism assumptions in future, thanks. Chris Cunningham (talk) 10:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA reviewing...

OK, here we go. I began by finding a current football club featured article to compare with and Chelsea F.C. was the first one that came to mind...there may be better ones but it was a start. I am copyediting as I go - please revert if I accidentally change the meaning.

  • I think for structure and readability, I'd remove the stadium out of the first sentence and place at the beginning of para 2 or 3. Can then easily add seating capacity to lead as well. Home colours and maybe noting the crest deserve a mention too. The lead is a potted summary of the most salient points in the article.

*To make prose interesting, avoid having 2 sentences starting the same way - at the beginning of the history section, there is 'The club was...' twice. Mix it up a bit. And then with 'Hibs established themselves'..

  • Try to avoid repeating a word alot. Can be tricky in cases like this, but having 'Hibs' in every sentence is disconcerting. If you can substitute 'the club' or 'they' at times (without it being ambiguous) it will flow better.
  • Takeover bid by Hearts should come after First British club in Europe. Also the recent history should be a subheading of history.
Moved it between the Famous Five and Turnbull sections to give correct chronological order. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 05:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • The whole history section is somewhat patchy. I realise it is a summary but it needs at least a couple of sentences on what happened between the periods mentioned in subheadings. eg and before the famour five, and after them too.
Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • ensure all references come after commas or full stops at the end of sentences.
Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Colours section should discuss change strips. also contrast of colours with hearts. Were they Green and white since formation? (probably I'd guess)
Yes. Hibs fans bore Celtic fans rigid by saying that Hibs were first to wear the green. There is a picture on the Hibs official site of an early Hibs strip, which was green and white hoops! I think we could claim that under fair use? Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
There is a football shirt template which can be used instead. You could just use the Celtic template/fair use should be ok though.
  • Stadium section I think should mention why the terraces aren't there 65k to 127k is a huge drop and leaves me curious....
Added a bit about how the east side of the ground had a large terracing with a reference. I'll find more later, it may be possible to get a picture of the terrace for the main Easter Road article. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Good start. A wee bit more would be handy, if you can find it.

Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

*I don't think we need the bold in the Rivalry section. :Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 05:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Good. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Rangers v Queen's Park is an older Glasgow fixture, but those clubs no longer play each other regularly because Queen's Park remained amateur while the rest of the game turned professional in the late 19th Century. - erm, I think the reason is one plays about 3 divisions lower than the other, so sort of tru-ish but needs clarification.
Reworded to make the point that they haven't been in the same division for decades. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 05:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

*The Music section in pop culture could be converted into a single paragraph (just put the proclaimers stuff at the bottom).

Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Overall not bad. I'll try to do some more copyediting later as the text needs a little massaging but shoudl be an easy fix. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not the best writer in the world so it probably does need a bit of work. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More ideas

  • Would be good to flesh out the Paatelainen section a bit. I added a little and saw more on his article page. Should be easy as the section is still a tiny bit stubby. One or two more sentences ought to do it. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. I don't want to add too much detail because he's only been the manager for a few months; the results were good for a start but were poor towards the end of the season. Too early to make a fair assessment. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Still need a change strip in the colours bit. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 19:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Now here's a thought - I am an aussie and not hugely familiar with scottish football - are Hibs seen as an underdog at all vs Hearts - or are their honours roughly equal? Anything in culture about that? Ay other demographics at all? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Added a wee bit about that. Both have won the league four times (decades ago); Hearts have won more cups due to Hibs' notorious Scottish Cup drought; Hearts have won more derbies. As for culture, there was a book written a couple of years ago by a Hibby (Aidan Smith) called Heartfelt which has been adapted into a theatre production. The book was based on the experiment of a Hibby (Smith) going to watch Hearts games for a whole season. That's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. Demographics, some would think that Hibs would tend to draw more Catholic support and Hearts more Protestant support (like the Old Firm), but it isn't really like that at all. Who people support has more to do with where people grow up or who their parents and friends support. This is covered in the early history section, regarding the dropping of the CYMS policy. I will add a para in the introduction about Hibs' Irish background and how this has lapsed over time. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 14:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 16:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Would it be a 50/50 split between Hibs/Hearts supporters, or is one more popular as a default? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
That's pretty much covered by the above amendment. The clubs have similar sized grounds. Hearts' current level of attendance is slightly higher (say 15,000 to 13,000), but it's hardly notable. There's a bigger attendance gap between the Old Firm clubs but that isn't noted by anyone really. There was a survey a couple of years ago by a polling organisation (Roy Morgan) which claimed that Hearts had 400,000 fans, but this is routinely ridiculed by Hibbies. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 14:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

OK - good...erm, a sneaky vandal has snuck in some stuff - have a look at teh history. Should be right after this....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Jambo. Yawn. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Hehe. ok, we're over the line now