Talk:Hibari Misora

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[edit] Ethnically Korean

If you type Hibari Misora is Korean in google or yahoo. The two sites will appear Nippop.com and clickopera-Misora Hibari. Both English websites and article replies that Hibari Misora is Korean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koreakoreawatch (talk • contribs) 10:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


I don't care one way or another whether she was actually ethnically Korean, but I think the WP article should get it right. To that end I did a Google search to try to find other sources on the subject (Nippop itself doesn't cite a source, and while it looks reliable itself, I think news articles and books are usually better). I found this blog post by Momus, some comments here (not a reliable source, but one person claims she was actually ethnically Taiwanese), and probably most importantly, a review of a book called Multiethnic Japan here. Not to say that print sources are automatically more reliable, but... well, what do others watching this page think? Japanese news articles or web pages might be helpful but my Japanese is not good enough to search for them. (Her ethnicity isn't mentioned in the Japanese WP article, as far as I can tell, and (not surprisingly) there doesn't seem to be any mention of it on her official website (the English side at least).) --Galaxiaad 20:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Koreans sometimes say that famous Japanese is a Korean. This assertion about Misora is one of them. But this is not fact. Misora was a daughter of Masukiti Kato and Kimie Kato, and Masukiti was drafted WWII ,in those days WWII, the People ethnicly Korea were exempted from draft. Korean mistakes many times about those assertions, or probably they know the assertions are not facts. In Japan Koreans had very high cirme rate esp. in 1950's , and with North Korean problem, etc, many of them live with false name of Japanese until now. This problem will be solved when the North Korea is democratized. Star80
This rumor was advertised by the South Korean when postmortem of her. Her father (Kato Masukichi) and ancestor were farmers with Tochigi_Prefecture. The Korean was not found by her ancestor on August 10, 1989 though the magazine of Japan "Shukan Bunshu" thoroughly investigated this rumor. (This investigation is done to her manager and relative.)
Please look at "Star birth (スター誕生) ISBN：4-06-209817-2" if you want to know reliable evidence. There is a family pedigree of Misora there. She doesn't have Korean people's ancestor. Though it doesn't understand in Edo period　--Sir Joestar 10:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
The Japanese who has a lot of wonderful talents is insisted on by the Korean that he is Korean. Misora Hibari might be one of the Japanese for whom the Korean yearns. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.212.102.229 (talk • contribs) 2007-01-13 02:26:15
The bottom line is that there are sources that say she is Korean. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I erased these links, because References no.2 webpage have so many uncertainty sourse. For example, the webpage said "I'm not sure but,Takuya Kimura and Kazuo Matsui might be Korean." This sentence is extremly uncertainty sourse,also the sentence may gotten a Korean rumor for someone else.In addition, References no.4 webpage have so many bad slangs. If you can read Japanese well, you'll agree my decision. For example..."Sonin is fuckin singer" "Is he has a small c*ck?" "FUCK" These slangs are only 0.1% of the webpage...Kim-Impossible

Here are the 5 recent citations (including the 2 just deleted) which claim Hibari was of Korean descent:
I'm sorry to say that you cannot selectively delete the JoongAng Ilbo article published in Korean, and then keep the JoongAng Ilbo article published on the same day in Japanese. You'd have to delete them both.--Endroit 17:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


It introduces the research book on Misora Hibari. It is not being written that Misora Hibari is South Korean in these books.

１．美空ひばり 竹中労 １９６５年（２００５復刻）ちくま文庫 ２．戦後、美空ひばりとその時代 本田靖春 １９８７年 講談社 ３．美空ひばり時代を歌う 大下英治 １９８９年 新潮文庫 ４．愛燦燦・ひばり神話の真実 西村克子 １９９３年 徳間 ５．ひばり裕次郎昭和の謎 吉田司 ２００３年 講談社＋α文庫

--Sir Joestar 12:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I have to point out - lack of evidence is not opposing evidence. Does that book specifically say that she was not Korean? Or does it just not mention that she was Korean? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
If it follows the idea of Hong Qi Gong, Koizumi Junichiro and Tezuka Osamu are Korean. They do not say, "I am not South Korean" either. Why cannot the Korean do a reasonable idea?　--218.218.128.184 13:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, that would be incorrect. Because no sources can be found that claim Koizumi Junichiro or Tezuka Osamu to be ethnic Korean. And if credible sources can be found to make those claims, then we most definitely should include that information in the articles. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does anyone really care about this article?

If anyone cares: Currently 3/4 of the body of the article is on Misora's death. A heavily-sourced new paragraph has recently been added in order to creat a debate about her ethnicity. There is passing, completely unsourced mention at the top of the article that she may have sang a bit, and appeared in some movies. Is this proper coverage of the life and career of one of the most famous celebrities in post-war Japan? I added a couple filmography references, and I'd work on the article too, but I've got other projects going on here. It does seem to me, though, that anyone who really cared about the subject would work on the article rather than engage in edit-warring. Dekkappai 17:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

There was minor edit-warring going on about the Korean thing before, but I think my suggestion to cite sources has maybe caused more harm than good here... I also think that this article should be much longer considering how famous she was... translating from the Japanese article would probably be a good place to start, but my Japanese skills aren't up to it. --Galaxiaad 20:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Right, that's my point. There should be a worthwhile article before (if?) this nationality squabbling comes up. She's an interesting subject who deserves a lengthy, well-written article. And this ethnicity debate is just a footnote to the life and career of Misora. (Also, I would hazzard a guess that this sort of constant squabbling does little to make either side look good in the eyes of most native English-readers.) I hope an editor steps up to do some real work on the article. Dekkappai 21:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese Sources

This article claims: "There exists Korean sources as well as English-language non-Korean sources that claim that Hibari Misora was ethnic Korean. However, this claim is not substantiated by any Japanese source."

A couple things trouble me about this last sentence. First, I don't think it's true. I have a Japanese-language source here quoted in Lie's book published in 1992 by Oruta, entitled "Rikidouzan densetsu" (pp. 49-57) in which the author Min-gi Hwang clearly argues that Misora was of Korean descent, as was her husband, the singer-actor Kobayashi Akira. Second, the WP article's sentence, as it reads now, is too sweeping a claim and smacks of original research without a proper citation to back it up.

I would have re-worded the sentence myself, but I want to wait until the editor which placed that sentence into the article has a chance to add a citation. Best, J Readings 09:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the whole issue is never going to be resolved-- there will be partisans on both sides of the argument who will never let it rest-- and, more importantly, it is almost entirely irrelevant to Misora's life, career and biography. I suggest taking out the whole section, and adding a bit at the beginning of her early life along the lines of "There have been claims and counter-claims that the family was of Korean descent" with citations to the best source linked for both sides of the argument. (I put something like that in earlier, but it was taken out.) Maybe then some significant work can be started on the actual article? Dekkappai 16:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Also- it seems to me than a standard encyclopedia article on Misora (as opposed to an article in an encyclopedia specializing in Korea/Japan releations) would mention this issue in a footnote, if at all. Since this paragraph has much more to do with Japan/Korea relations than with Misora's life and career (which should be the focus of this article), maybe this paragraph can be put into a more appropriate article. If there is there one on famous zainichi Koreans, it would be better there than here, I think. Neither Misora nor Korea/Japan relations are in my area of editing interest, however. Just putting in my two-cents worth. Dekkappai 17:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
First of all, Hibari's parents are both Japanese. His father got drafted in WWII. In those days, Korean descendants were absolved from draft because of in the early days of annexation. And The people who say she was Korean descendant have never exhibited like that one of particular her ancestor was Korean. So this allegation that she has Korean ancestor has no reason, and many books say no reason that she has korean ancestor. This was one of Probatio diabolica. So who want to say it is true must quote a reason, and if he can't, it should be addressed that it is not true. Many books of earnest attempts of it say she is Japanse and doesn't have Korean ancestors, so it must be written first that it wasn't true, and if new reason will be found, then we should rewrite it. Star80 10:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Fortunately (or unfortunately), we are writing an encyclopedia entry. A publicly verifiable Japanese-language source (as well as several English and Korean sources) makes the claim that Hibari Misora was of Korean descent. We can't cover up these sources to promote a POV article or engage in original research to debate the substance of the claims (both are unacceptable to Wikipedia). Debating the actual substance may have its place in other venues, but not here. We are writing an article which is based on secondary sources only, not primary sources. Personally, I am rather indifferent to Misora's nationality, but I take issue with the idea that secondary sources must be removed because a fellow editor disagrees with them. J Readings 11:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, this issue's (probably) never going to be resolved, and more important, it's not our place to attempt to resolve it. Any agreement with my idea of just taking out that whole section and putting in a passing reference to both sides of the article where it mentions her parents? Dekkappai 15:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)