User talk:Hesperian/Archive 10

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The following text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.

Contents

[edit] Wikibreak

{{wikibreak}} No access to Wikipedia until Wednesday. Hesperian 21:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm back. Hesperian 03:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Have a nice break. Thanks for your emails. I will try to be less rude about the gentleman in question now that I know he is come amongst us. Adam 00:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manning Clark photo

This is the best I have seen. Quite possibly MCH would give us permission to use it if we asked, but that probably won't satisfy the photonazis. Anyway, if you want to upload it and argue fair use, please do. I have taken a vow of abstinence from photo-wars in the interests of my blood-pressure. Adam 01:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List

Hi, I saw this neat list; does the geoscience database keep information on habitation? --Peta 03:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Oh well. Thanks. --Peta 03:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joe

Can you think of a nicer looking format for the verses? -- I@n 00:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

From memory Ian Elliot was quite annoyed that the Mahogany Creek people (fourth or firth last owners) claimed that Joe had been one time resident there. He had found no evidence in his research, but they claimed otherwise. I do think there might be room for some of the "created" folklore about the figure.

The Toodyay tourist info had two sep titles on sale (from memory) - they clearly like the idea that there might be more than one idea on the fellow!

Good to see you guys take the literalist view on the hungry ones - I always thought i had seen 'Horgans hungry six' rather than 'the hungry six' - but then the memory does funny things. SatuSuro 01:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Easton affair, et al

Dear Mr Gobble I posted this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AUP, I strongly feel these articles and links were created with malicious intent, containing unverified opinion and innuendo.

  • This is to advise wikipedians with an interest WA politics that I tried to change the Carmen Lawrence biog. article from a unverified Easton afffair rant. For example List of Australian political scandals contained [[Carmen Lawrence#Penny Easton affair|Penny Easton affair]] with more libel at Richard Court etc. But I am new here, so criticism of my approach would be welcome.--Fred.e 00:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I would appreciate your comment if you find a moment. --Fred.e 01:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your Welcome

Hi mate, thanks for the welcome. Watching your work was one of the reasons I joined. Callophylla 01:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tempting fate

I think the latest item at moondyne (good one dont you think?) or his old talk page might be on the way to sorting a problem. SatuSuro 03:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the sockpuppet

thanks for re-posting the sp case - i really didn't know what to do with it, as it'd been posted but archived. stuff started up again as you've seen, and i wanted to know whether i should start a 2nd evidence page and so on, and it kinda went in the too hard basket. will be great to simply resolve the issue. Dibo | Talk | Contribs 04:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Ahah Dibo, compose away. That does not change the fact that you spend all your time waiting around to see what edit you can change EVEN though you contribute almost nothing to that article. Your bias is quite poignant and who was the folk that changed Roy Masters football coach to Roy Masters rl coach? Read any article and it is called football by the players and coaches and people etc. but because a shallow media wants to "internationalise" Sydney's sports in some elitist bourgeois orgy, those sections have changed the reference of soccer to football. That does not mean wikipedia should. Gobbler, what have I ever done to yoy? Look into it by all means 05:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)~__--__

[edit] Moon

I've sent you an email -- I@n 04:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think he's User:61.8.3.2. My mistake. -- I@n 04:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of homesteads in Western Australia

Hi Drew,

I wrote a small program in LabVIEW to convert the latitudes and longitudes listed in the article to a linked coordinates using the coor dm template.

Out of the two alternatives below, I chose the second one. If you prefer the first one, let me know and I can change it.

Option One:

Name Latitude Longitude Linked Coordinates Remarks
10 Mile Outcamp 28° 24' S 121° 14' E 28°24′S, 121°14′E
17 Mile Outcamp 24° 6' S 115° 60' E 24°6′S, 115°60′E
45 Mile Outcamp 29° 21' S 120° 31' E 29°21′S, 120°31′E

Option Two:

Name Location Remarks
10 Mile Outcamp 28°24′S, 121°14′E
17 Mile Outcamp 24°6′S, 115°60′E
45 Mile Outcamp 29°21′S, 120°31′E

Took about 15 minutes... HOWEVER! I've just noticed that everything from Old Erivilla down isn't including the template properly... is there a limit on the number of transclusions? any suggestions? In the meantime, I'll revert the article. - Gobeirne 05:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Western Australia -- Economy "revert to IP"

I'll accept your rv -- I do understand the "good faith" bit, but I thought the condensation was just a bit too much, removing interesting information. Well, it interests me, anyway  :) I have no idea who wrote the paragraph. Gordon | Talk, 13 October 2006 @13:26 UTC

[edit] Maps

The big problem is - is it possible to create a new one that acknowledges the earlier one as a base - I am not sure of copyright and mapsSatuSuro 01:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Username

Thankyou for that info. I've reapplied and see you have also (what happened to the alternate "SG" name?). I nearly didn't because I felt the name had been sullied, but really liked my new choice so, bugger it, I say. Here's to new personas! -- I@n 13:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Best of luck with it, may it serve you well! - good classical roots! [From Latin Hesperius, from Greek hesperios, of the evening, western, from hesperos, evening; see wes-pero- in Indo-European roots.] SatuSuro 13:29, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

As requested, I have renamed you as Hesperian. You should now move your userpages to the new name, and might consider recreating a user with this name and requesting that an admin block it, to prevent impersonation. Oh, and thanks for passing on the information to I@n, who is now Moondyne! Warofdreams talk 18:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice name, but all those sockpupets wont be able to find you now ;-P

[edit] Commons

Talk about a head spin its been proposed at VP that a featured gallery type system be developed and now they dont want all the subjects images to be put in the same gallery. Gnangarra 00:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

An interesting developement, though I wonder why consensus was not first needed to change the policy http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:WikiProject_Tree_of_Life#Policy_amendments_reverted ... Gnangarra 13:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
yeah it'll be wasted commenting now, it's not even worth asking him to restore all those edits he performed implementing the policy Gnangarra 00:23, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oz Lit in West Oz

Good point you make - I suppose the more obscure but neverthess notable (you should hear Bill Grono go on about Lilian Wooster Greaves - he has every copy of hers, I have only one or two) deserve not necessarrily separate articles - but they can be easily tracked from the LISWA/Battye catalogue and clumped together within a few more general articles I would say. SatuSuro 12:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Challenge

Do tell. (PS I like your new ID much better). Adam 05:10, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IP addr's

HI Drew these IP addresses are putting the same advertising on perth pages can something be done besides reverts User:202.173.207.237, User:202.173.207.44 06:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks like the user is User:Perthmetro per linksearch. I'll drop a note on his talk page. — Moondyne 10:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stirling, Western Australia

I was a bit surprised when I saw that "Stirling, Western Australia" had been moved to "City of Stirling". The only two situations in which you would move "xxx, Western Australia" to "City of xxx" are if;

Also, the article should have been moved to City of Stirling, Western Australia; I did move it to that, however.

If there are other examples of "xxx, Western Australia" being moved to "City of xxx" when the situation does is not part of the above criteria, please let me know of these. Thanks--M W Johnson 12:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up. I'd move it back to Stirling, Western Australia, but it appears that all the moving and redirecting have created quite a situation--M W Johnson 13:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

OK; so Local government area articles don't require the Western Australia bit by that logic. That means if I go and move all the articles on local governments to "City of xxx" rather than "City of xxx, Western Australia", I'll be following the naming convention. --M W Johnson 03:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

That's my understanding too. Confused the hell out of me at first though as Hesperian was editing LGA's and I was editing suburb infoboxes at exactly the same time :) Figured it all out though. Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 06:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EF

For a laugh, take a break and turn on the Einstein factor tonight....cheers Cas Liber 08:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The banksia questions were from when I went on two years ago, this time I did Horned Dinosaurs (Ceratopsia) which I practiced for by editing wikipedia (and got me into this whole craze..)Cas Liber 11:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1987 Americas Cup

For the likes of me I have some memory of you doing an article but I cant find it! Is my memory going completely, or... theres no link to the main ac art if there is. SatuSuro 01:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

OOps! it was way 79 that you did -apologies- I'm suprised no one has done 87 ac as a sep art SatuSuro 01:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Out of the blue - have you seen anything on toxic plants/poison plants of wa on wiki yet? SatuSuro 03:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
not as yet but there are enough of them. Gnangarra 03:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC) - sneaky bugger, there I was in a long essay about my things about them and we get an edit conflict and you jump in :) Hi ! SatuSuro 03:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh well Hesperian/Gnangarra - I do have quite a bit about poison plants of south west oz - it is not a pleasant sstory, but complicated history involving gardner and bennetts (of what I have stuff on due to being family friend etc) and the 87 cup - if you guys dont start it - i have stuff on that too! . - I'm off in a few minutes, so have a good day - whatever you get up to! SatuSuro
Bennetts as in Eleanor? Probably the way to go is to get hold of the toxic plants of WA book, and work through it creating articles. Then add history stuff per Gardner, Bennetts, Drummond later. Hesperian 03:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC) H.W. ag dept vet - did groundbreaking arts on what was killing the sheep in beverley - hes on the hero boards at the showground RAS building, and online adb - good mate of my father in 50's and 60's. Thanks for your suggestion - have a good day! im off like the proverrbial SatuSuro 03:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wild Goose Help

Hi Hesperian, Nice name BTW. How do I link to your wiki source copies of JBOR`s poems, I would like to add "Flying Dutchman" and "Old school clock" as links. Cheers Ghostieguide 01:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoax?

I suspect the the article on DYN today "Sybil Grant" is a hoax, take a look.Ghostieguide 07:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

..for cleaning up Snotty....Looks like I am getting a lot of TLC lately...Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stirling

Ah oops :) Sorry about that! Thanks for fixing it up. I finally figured out what was going on and have now substituted City of Stirling in the template and in all suburbs previously linking to what is now the suburb page. Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 04:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe - just maybe there is an article needed to delineate aspects of spatial terminology in the west oz legal entity to direct the bright sparks the next time they try? Java and Java (Island) etc has started again, like politicians kissing babies I suppose, its too tempting to those who come across previous time wasters, sigh. SatuSuro 03:33, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Viz all this City and Java are all the rage at the moment - and I havent caught up with who I said would yet - my apologies. Will try to get organised this week! SatuSuro 03:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Could you be so kind to look at the talk page of a friend of mine? I have emailed his username as I think it needs checking when harrassment occurs SatuSuro 09:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User blocked before for sneaky vandalism doing it again

This user user:Steveng75 was attempting to do sneak vandalism on George W. Bush. He did a similar tactic on John Howard which you blocked him for. Obviously he doesn't take your advice and continues to do it. ViriiK 22:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] As for

Matthew Flinders - someone is doing something very sneaky - I thought I had done a rvv and it has me putting in vndlsm? Dont understand SatuSuro 06:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. SatuSuro 09:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
And Hal, well its weird that the universe has two so close in bdate and similarities. SatuSuro 13:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
No further comment on wiki - but boy could I tell you some stories off-line, remind me to do so one day! SatuSuro 10:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Victoria Park, Western Australia

HI, on this article we discussed and think its best to a copy to Town of Victoria Park, Western Australia then edit no related info out, also edit Vic park back to a burb only article. The question is do we need to copy current history over to the LGA article or because we are leaving burb article in place as well it doesnt matter. Any thoughts or suggestions? Gnangarra 16:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Beyond the suburb infobox and a paragraph that really belongs to the Causeway article, there isn't actually anything suburb-specific in the article. If all are agreed we can copy it across. Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 06:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I've done the move and returned the infobox and paragraph. Gnangarra 07:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Um... er... um...

(Sorted out after reading Help:Reverting. Orderinchaos78 3 November 2006 16:39 UTC

Hi Hesperian, sorry about this, would you be able to delete the City of Wanneroo redirect article? It was a botched attempt on my part a month or more ago to fix the very problem that simply moving Wanneroo, Western Australia to that location would now solve (if you look at the edit history you'll notice I'm the only editor on it). Cheers Orderinchaos78 23:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC) - Thanks! :)
Was just an abbreviation of my nick - the other meaning only just occurred to me!) Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 00:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Finally........the type species is in bloom..

type species
type species

Finally the damn things are starting to flower.......trying to get the aperture right.Cas Liber 12:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it is the north or north-west face that has matured the first.Cas Liber 08:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo move

Thanks, I will be moving all my images over next week, will finally be free from uni! --liquidGhoul 04:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name in vain?

Mainly in spain? I have used yours in th extended discussion at orderinchaos and gordon e's conversation about lga's and suburbs and localities etc - in case you hadnt spotted it/ SatuSuro 15:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

The discussion is at User talk:GordonE under "Suburb / Locality / LGA". It kept popping up in places like Victoria Park and Stirling, so I decided to try and resolve the core issue in userspace. I won't offer an opinion here as my views on the pages concerned are clearly expressed. Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 16:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikispecies

Hi Hesperian. In your last reply at the Village Pump on Wikispecies you sounded a bit irritated. If it was becuase of me, I need to say sorry, I have no intention to chase people away, and I value all contributions. If it was the 'lack' of response from the community, remember Wikispecies is small already, and there certainly is not a let's-ignore-Hesperian mentality :). Anyway your contributions are really valued by me. The ssp template change absolutely necessary, and my personal view on the requested authorities change just no-priority/waste of time, but a step closer to being perfect nevertheless. Sincerely, Kempmichel 11:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

No, not at all. I have re-read my message, and I can see why you thought I was irritated, but that was just careless writing on my part. I saw something I thought needed changing, I brought it before the community, I didn't see a consensus for the change, so I forgot about it and moved on to other things. The "other things" just happened to be on the English Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned Wikispecies.
Please rest assured that I am not one of those contributors who gets bent out of shape over the tiniest of things. Hesperian 00:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plagiarism by an Administrator

Thanks for cleaning up that mess. I appreciate your efforts. I like to consider myself as being fully accountable for my edits here and I didn't mind too much that matter being aired. If there's anything untoward I've done I'm happy to explain and / or face the community. I strongly suspect that editor is either the banned anon Gundagai editor I and several others recently tackled before the ArbCom, or a close associate. A checkuser can only prove so much, and it's easy to evade laying evidence if you know how. I've had a hand in removing two known troublemakers from Wikipedia since me being here, so I expect heat at times but it's nothing I can't handle. Thanks mate for your support. -- Longhair\talk 03:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving of "Troll Bait"

Just a comment on your archiving of the "Troll Bait". While you, I, and the person accused all know that the original comment was nothing but a bad-faith accusation by an editor bitter that their particular POV was not being allowed to be pushed, I disagree with "archiving" the whole affair. Surely, it's better to air such accusations and look at them in an impartial light, rather than doing what may be construed as "sweeping them under the rug". Personally, I'm quite willing to accept the reasoning that it was a stupid mistake made by a very young editor, but should we not at least be open about such things?

Respectfully,

Lankiveil 05:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC).

There is a difficult balance to be struck here. On the one hand, we want to create an environment where people can feel confident airing concerns about even the most respected contributors, and where such concerns can be discussed openly without censorship or fear of reprisals. On the other hand, it is important that trolls who deliberately set out to harm other editors not be fed.
Blowing the whistle on someone certainly doesn't make you a troll, but she was already a troll before she blew the whistle on Longhair. This is a long-term nuisance editor who was banned by the ArbCom, and was violating her ban in order to publicly post the results of her trawling through Longhair's contributions looking for dirt.
In this situation, bearing in mind the spirit in which the accusation was made, and Longhair's adequate response to it, I was of the opinion that the best course was to archive the discussion. But such an action must always be subject to there being no objections. If you wish, I will restore the discussion.
Hesperian 06:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't mind if the thread is restored. I've already restored it on my own talk page. Transparency is a good thing IMHO, but I'll leave it up to the rest of you to decide what to do from here. -- Longhair\talk 06:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Saw your response at user talk for Longhair. My problem is that if she isn't the banned user then she shouldn't get a year. As you say though, it cannot be anything other than linked to the Gundagai editor. I have no intention of wheel warring, but just want to make sure that my doubts are known. I picked up on her very shortly after her first post and raised the issue at Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Gundagai editors/Workshop#A new wikipedian? If not for the block you imposed I am sure my turn would be coming shortly, must be something to drag up in over 13,000 edits - I am all for transparency but in context, and this context is all about attacks and discrediting "enemies" of the anon gundagai editor.--Golden Wattle talk 00:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
To throw my opinion into the ring (and I haven't yet read all the discussion on this at my own talk page, real life keeps dragging me back into its' fold but I'm catching up), I wouldn't have blocked the user. That said, I'm not in support of unblocking either now that a block has been imposed. As the old saying goes "If you sleep with dogs, you'll get fleas". One less nuisance editor in support of another confirmed nuisance isn't always a bad thing. Whether or not they're the same user remains to be seen, but I have my doubts. A Telstra user can simply walk into a net cafe supplied by Optus to become a new identity. -- Longhair\talk 00:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Banksia review

Hi, I think the article looks really good. Three things - I'd get rid of the cultural references, maybe they could be merged into the distribution section since it is the emblem of 2 coastal cities - or into the lead? You might want to make sure each paragraph has some source information - some FAC reviewers expect each paragraph to have a cite (I think this is stupid - but it might come up). Some other examples from indigenous languages might be good to lengthen that section - was the species used by indigenous people for anything?--Peta 22:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, cites don't belong in the lead. --Peta 09:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
OK, how are you feeling about nominating? Anything else you wanna do beforehand? The mention of lack of aboriginal names was inspired. cheers Cas Liber 01:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Murch

Yikes - the book that I cite has enough offspring issues to inhabit the pastoral lease, homestead and other series - my place of highest knowledge (and unfound resources of prints or negs if I ever find them) is Melangata - south of meka, and adjacent to dalgaranga and jingemara - north of yalgoo and west of magnet etc etc but I remain too scattered! indonesian and tasmanian articles all needing repair and vigilance etc etc as for Ian I havent forgotten sorry about delay SatuSuro 13:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Category:Redirects from alternate names

Concerning the message you left me, delete the category. Nice to know someone from Australia. --Meno25 14:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] B. Integrifolia

Hi that user sub page I created if theres nothing else that can be used from it can you delete it please. Gnangarra 06:39, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 124.189.227.115

Hi Hesperian. I notice you recently blocked the ip 124.189.227.115. You should probably check the contributions of Pinkyetti. -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Wise action with regards to Jazzper.--cj | talk 07:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pouched lamprey

Sorry. I can easily move it back, just give me the word. Not sure what the problem is though. The general rule is to list under the common name if one exists, else scientific name. GrahamBould 12:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You've got me interested now, what is the stupid part of the rule? GrahamBould 12:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I think you may have overlooked an important point - Wikipedia is for everyone to use. Most people aren't scientists so won't know the scientific name. Common names are notoriously ambiguous, but that's why there are disambuation pages. If we only had scientific names very few people would be able to use the natural history side of wikipedia. GrahamBould 12:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Banksia FAC

Sorry, H, yes, I'm pretty busy in real life. I'll run through the article as soon as possible, even if you've already nominated it to the FAC room. Tony 03:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ndashes in Banksia integrifolia

Sorry, I didn't notice, and I think at least one was a normal dash. Do you know if there's a general preference for unicode vs. html? Personally I like the html because it's easy to tell the difference in the edit window. But if you prefer unicode; that's fine with me. --Spangineerws (háblame) 06:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

OK =). I'll just leave them then, and wait for an AWB friend to come along and "fix" them all. Kudos on the great work. --Spangineerws (háblame) 06:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quick one re sockpuppet/POV character

Hi, not sure what to do, and hope I'm approaching the right person here :) - there is an individual (User:Premier) intent on pushing a rather radical POV on Indigenous Australians, who keeps filling Talk:Indigenous_Australians with crap about cannibalism. He's adopted an attitude that he will keep posting this no matter what anyone says and even though he's practically silenced all other conv on the talk page. Has also been using a sock puppet IP. The material posted is apparently from a neo-Nazi website (see thebainer's comments here). Is there anything that can be done to stop the reckless editing/POV pushing? Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 11:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Watch needed

I feel that its a sensitive one - a newbie who has worked on mount henry. gently i think - but...SatuSuro 12:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "If this gets us nowhere"?

please read the archived talk on I A. this has been going on for a very long time. it has gotten us nowhere. aside from what appears to be sock-puppetry User:Premier has been posting material sourced from a hate site (see thebainer's reply to u). people have tried reasoning with him any number of times, this is all in the archive. as an admin, u should know to check back before you wade in. regardless of what your intentions are, you are only encouraging this individual to spread hate-speech, especialy having suggested more 'evidence' for him. (on which score you might want to clarify your "hopefuly" edit, what exactly do you mean by this?) also please check your facts, "many clever anthropoligists" is understated to say the least.  → bsnowball  13:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Banksia integrifolia

I've done a little tweaking - it look better to you? Adam Cuerden talk 00:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Not sure. Weel, I'll look at it in the morning =) Adam Cuerden talk
The above text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.