Talk:Herbert Morrison
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There are some other interesting facts about Herbert Morrison which are worth recording. It is often forgotten that he attempted an abortive coup against Clement Attlee after Labour had won the 1945 election. Attlee had not been at this stage been formally confirmed as the party's leader and Morrison tried to get his supporter Harold Laski to move a motion in the Parliamentary Labour Party calling for a leadership election. It was this that led to the memorable rebuke from Attlee to Laski: "A period of silence from you would now be welcome."
Morrison's inveterate plotting made him unpopular with his colleagues. One minister was once heard to lament that Morrison "was his own worst enemy," only to be met with the response from Ernest Bevin "not while I'm alive he ain't." Intriguingly, Morrison's grandson is the former Labour Cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who had a similarly testy relationship with many of his political colleagues.
[edit] Page move
I've now properly moved the page, and merged the histories.
James F. (talk) 02:37, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Why use an awkward parenthesis, when we could use either his middle name or his peerage title? Aren't we to prefer natural disambiguators, when possible? john k 03:13, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The established convention seems to be to use parentheses, and I think that is correct. The use of middle names should be reserved for people who actually used them as part of their name (Martin Luther King). We have a convention that life peers don't get their titles as part of their article title. Adam 03:29, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The latter simply is not true - we changed that convention a long time ago. Currently, life peerage titles can be used for disambiguation, and when the person is best known by their life peerage title (as Lord Falconer of Thoroton is, for instance). As to middle names, Herbert Morrison is certainly sometimes called Herbert Stanley Morrison - I've certainly seen his name listed as such on many occasions. The bit in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), doesn't address disambiguation, so I don't think it's authoritative one way or the other. I'm going to begin a discussion of that question at the policy talk page, however. Personally, I think Herbert Stanley Morrison makes the most sense for this page. john k 16:26, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that the life peer convention had been changed - the last time I was involved in one of these discussions it was insisted upon. It is true that you will see "Herbert Stanley Morrison" in printed references, just as you will see "John Harold Wilson." References do that to you once you're dead. But he wasn't called that in his lifetime. My view is that article titles should call the person what they were called in their lifetime, which in his case was 'Erbert. Middle names should only be used (a) when the person customarily used it in their name (John Stuart Mill) or (b) when there is absolutely no other way of disambiguating (eg, Kim Beazley and Kim Edward Beazley, both Australian politicians). Adam 22:46, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hey Adam, I agree with you that we should not use full names that are never used, if it is avoidable. (certainly James Harold Wilson would be a bad idea.) But I think (and there seems to be at least some support for me on the Use Common names policy page, that it is preferable to use a middle name to a parenthetical for disambiguation. I do wonder, though - is it possible that this Herbert Morrison is enough more famous than the other Herbert Morrison that we can just put his article at Herbert Morrison? I mean, this Herbert Morrison was a major British political figure who led the house of commons. The other one is basically an oddity - the guy who happened to be the radio announcer at the Hindenburg explosion. john k 17:02, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Since you have reverted my moving of the article, I'm not going to argue the point further. But I agree that this Herbert is much more famous than the other one, and should get the Herbert Morrison spot without the need for a disambiguation page. (The Beazleys are again an analogy here). Adam 04:53, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
When the two 'Winston Churchill-the-writers' met they agreed that the politician would use his middle initial to distinguish them.
There is more than a passing resemblence now between Mandelson and pictures of his grandfather in his mid-late 40s.
Jackiespeel 16:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Term as Deputy PM
Is there a reason why this ended in February 1951? He was still Lord President and Leader of the Commons until the following month. Timrollpickering 14:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
