Talk:Henry I of England

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Loren - I have revert your correction as regards Richard and William. I agree that the evidence for Richard is very slender ( it pretty much consists of a reference to Richard, the son of Queen Matilda, in her will) but it is there. The slenderness of his existance is noted in the article. Arno 07:35, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC) There is a factual discrepancy between this article and White Ship: this article describes Richard as legitimate while the other says the opposite. I don't know which one is correct, so I don't think I should change it myself. - rsutphin 00:50, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I've rewritten the article to remove the contradiction. Thanks for pointing it out. Arno 05:16, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)
William of Malmesbury frankly states that Richard (who drowned on the White Ship) was born to King Henry before his marriage, the son of a woman of low birth. The only reference to a legitimate son named Richard is from Gervase of Canterbury, an early but not contemporary chronicler. Gervase describes the births of Empress Maud and William Adelin, then writes "Alium quoque habuit filium Ricardum, et cessavit parere" (Another son, Richard, was had, and then no more [children]). If this son Richard existed, then he must've died in infancy. Hermann of Tournai says King Henry had "duos filios et unam filiam genuit" (Two sons and one daughter were born to him) but this is probably a mistake for Henry's illegitimate son Richard. Hermann of Tournai is so error-prone it's hard to accept anything he says. Missi 08:48, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

--- I've written parts of the article to smooth out some of the paragraphs, specifically to put things in a more orderly time sequence. I also included:

  • a boldface Beauclerk and a mentioning origin of term
  • brief synopsis of major accomplishments of his reign in opening paragraph
  • discussion of how William divided up his kingdom, leading to eventual succession issues.
  • mentioning of Charter of Liberties (arguably most important thing in his reign)
  • mentioning of Treaty of Alton
  • clarification of events leading up to Battle of Tinchebray
  • clarification of succession issues with Mathilda and Stephen
  • inclusion of references and external sites

I think there's a lot more to be done and fleshed out. I didn't touch the paragraphs about his marriages and children. I am not at all sure about that "holding the record for illegitimate children." I would like to see a source on that. I also avoided the verb "usurp" (which I think was in the article previously) which although is probably technically true, has a perjorative ring about it, especially considering that up through Anglo-Saxon times, the designation of an heir by an existing king still had to be ratified by the witan. The article as it stands is basically a discussion of how he achieved the throne and kept it, and well as the mess of passing it on to an heir. I'm planning in the near future to expand the section on his governmental reforms, which I think are the most important features of his reign. Most of the material I've added is from Cross' history, which is nice and detailed. Decumanus 04:49, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC) I've been using Alison Weir's researches on the matter of Henry's illegitimate children , Decumanus. I daresay a google search will come up with something as well. Also, what word would you use in place of usurp? Henry didn't exactly acquire the throne by anyone's agreement. Arno 05:05, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC) Further to this, your factual additions are certainly appreciated. But why the occasional use of bold type for Henry's name. Also , isn't beauclerc spelt with a c? Arno 05:09, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC) Allison Weir. I just looked the name up. The feminist writer? It sounds interesting. Boldface--well I've been evolving a wiki style. I'm perfectly willing to remove that. As far the spelling of Beaucler(c/k), I am perhaps in error about that.Decumanus 05:12, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

  • The Royal Bastards of Medieval England, Chris Given-Wilson and Alice Curteis, 1984, Chapter 4, "Henry I's Bastards", p. 60: "He fathered, by various mistresses, at least twenty royal bastards, more than any other king in English history." The Complete Peerage, vol. XI, Appendix D, is devoted to Henry's bastards, listing 20-21 of them. These are also shown in Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., ?Royal Bye-Blows: The Illegitimate Children of the English Kings from William I to Edward III,? New England Historical and Genealogical Register, vol. 119, April 1965, pp. 94-102. - Binky 05:16, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)
  • Now that's a darn good quote. Decumanus 05:18, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The Weir reference is Weir, Alison, "Britain's Royal Families" (1996 Edition), Random House:London. The Henry I stuff on his offspring, both legitimate and illegitimate, comes from pages 47-50 of that volume. The bibliography includes the first two books listed above by Binky. Arno 07:35, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Further to bolding - I've taken the liberty of taking it out. No offence, but the bolding that you've used is not used elsewhere and it look plain untidy. I've also removed some unnecessary links - you should ideally only have one link to a related article. HOWEVER - please do not let this prevent you from adding more to this article as stated above. You have made a good start. Arno 07:45, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hello, I am new to the wikipedia thing and was doing research on female rulership in the early middle ages and had this question:

Is there a reference as to what inspired Henry II to recall his daughter Maud, the dowager Empress of Holy Roman Empire, and install her as his single legitimate heir over other male canidates? As far as I can see, with the exception of a few Spanish Visgothic kingdoms there was no precident for designnating a female heir to rule as Queen Regnant in her own right. Eleanor of Aquataine is the next closest example and her father willed her the succession with an independant duchy. But this would not be for a few years yet.

This seems to be a huge problem with the article. It reads "and his controversial (although well-founded) decision to name his daughter as his heir." Neither Norman nor English law/custom allowed female succession so what's well founded about itAlci12 10:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I finally managed to find the description of Henry from William of Malmesbury. I confess I love the rare snippets of what medieval people looked like, how they dressed, etc. Both Henry and his brother William Rufus seem to have had a similar body type -- thickset and muscular, though William Rufus is blond while Henry is dark-haired. I don't suppose if anyone knows of a reference to what Robert Curthose looked like? Missi I believe Robert Curthose was short and fat with dark hair, like Henry. I will add this into the Robert Curthose article. User: Dark Lord of the Sith Revan

Contents

[edit] First Sentence

There's something wrong with the first sentence of this article, but I'm unsure what it's meant to say: "..was the fourth son of William I the Conqueror [of?] the first England"

[edit] Birthdate

The article notes that Henry was born between two dates. I assume this is because the only mention is in passing, ie, he was mentioned to be alive at some date after this? Or is it that two different dates are given in texts? I am curious as to the source of this "range" and think that it might be worth a footnote Maury 12:01, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

See Warren Hollister's Henry I for a full examination of Henry's possible birthdate. Let's see if I can briefly summarize the evidence, with my copy a thousand miles away. The chroniclers report that Henry was born "within a year" of King William and Queen Matilda's crowning on Christmas 1066. This means he could've been born anytime between January 1066-January 1068. Missi 07:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

TINCHEBRAY- I've just read the Wikipedia page on the Battle of Tinchbray and I think someone should strike it off completely. To begin with, there's no castle on a hill at Tinchebray, the land is flat and cut with small valleys, 2) it was a running battle which lasted all day, 3)if you don't like my version take a trip there and see for yourself.

A number of souurces have him being born in September 1068. - JackofOz (talk) 05:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Imperial measures

Weren't units of measurement such as the yard, foot and so on first standardised by Henry I? Surely this is an important part of his legacy.

[edit] Unorthodox Monitary Policy

Henry I is the English King cited as the initiator of the "talley-stick" system in locations such as [1], but I can't seem to find any references that such as that which cite their sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AltiusBimm (talk • contribs) 05:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I get better results searching for "tally stick" (without the 'e') (or more precisely for "tally stick Henry I"). Try searching in google books or google scholar. I found a number of mentions of its use in Henry I's reign, but nothing that says it was an innovation, though I just skimmed a few of the search results. See for example in William Stubbs's classic The Constitutional History of England in Its Origin and Development, vol. 1 p. 429. Loren Rosen 06:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
In looking through various book search results including The Constitutional History of England in Its Origin and Development, I don't seem to find references to tally sticks being used as money, but rather a form of record-keeping. That strikes me as having the possibility of being similar to how a LETSystem might be misunderstood as being not a form of money (in its "secondary commodity" sense). (E.g., see Number Words and Number Symbols: A Cultural History of Numbers 1992 by Karl Menninger, page 239.)—AltiusBimm (talk) 16:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Henry's Legimimate Children

Noticing that my edits as to Henry's legitimate children were recently reverted (I have now re-reverted the information), I would like to state my sources for this information:

Britain's Royal Families, the Complete Genealogy, by Alison Weir (Pimlico, 2002) Kings and Queens of Britain, by David Williamson (Guild Publishing, London, 1986)

James David Harris (talk) 21:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Robert Curthose

I've never read anywhere that Henry had his brother Robert blinded. This definitely needs corroboration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.102.212 (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)