Talk:Henry III of England

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Contents 1 King John 2 Relinquished control in 1270??? 3 Re-write 4 An only child? 5 By the Face at Lucca!

[edit] King John

King John wasn't infamous, he was famous! and great too! Susan Mason

I don't disagree with the fact that he was famous, but his incompetence has registered him as one of, if not the worst king of England ever.

King John was certainly famous but not incompetent. He faced the internal upheavals and external assaults with ability, but what placed him amongst the worst English kings was his cruelty, asserting character and arbitrary methods. John perceived himself to be the absolute monarch with power given from God, the sole authority to whom John justified his actions. All the other people in the kingdom had to get aware of it. Ourania 21:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)RaniaOurania 21:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relinquished control in 1270???

How is it possible than Henry III "effectively gave up the reins of government to his son" when that son, Edward I of England, was out of the country from 1270 to 1274 on the Eighth Crusade and Ninth Crusade? If Henry wasn't regnant in 1270 until his death in 1272, who was? Certainly not his absent son. I'll give this a week or so, then I will change the language if nobody comes forward with an explanation and a source to back it up. - Bryan is Bantman 18:24, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

I have edited the article and it no longer says that. User:Dark Lord of the Sith Revan

[edit] Re-write

I've split this page into many sub-categories and moved informatino about between them. Are there othr ways of improving this article? I am soon going to start finding more sources. 0L1 22:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The sub-categories seem to be ok, but they certainly need to be expanded.The paragraph about Henry III and Edward the Confessor, for example, could be developped as following: There is the other side of the coin; under the pretension of following Edward’s example in virtue, Henry served his own vested interests. Westminster, Edward’s residence, was incorporated with Henry’s into a single centre implying thus the centralized state of England. The English and French kings may have both ‘promoted monarchy by emphasizing its divinity’, but the evidence suggests that Henry was conspicuously pious whereas Louis IX truly believed in ‘godly ideals’. Moreover, Henry emphasised their common love of hunting in order to justify his own lack of prowess and manliness, elements which were required for every monarch. On the other hand, Matthew Paris dedicated the Estoire de Seint Edward le Rei to Henry’s queen Eleanor of Provence (if I am not wrong it was in the 1242s). Edward the Confessor played a major role in Matthew’s ideas of royal piety. His ‘reign was a paradigm of conciliatory kingship – the Edward of the Estoire was everything Paris wished for in Henry III’. To reflect this model of kingship, the monk tended to emphasize Edward’s adherence to his councils, his detest towards the foreigners and his deep devotion to God for he attended the Masses with contemplation and he enlarged Westminster as well. Moreover, Matthew laid emphasis on the fact that the Confessor avoided extravagance and he preferred to live humbly.

Sources Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, 42 (Oxford, 2004), p. 625. W. M. Ormrod, Political life in medieval England, 1300-1450 (N. York, 1995), p. 66. C. Brooke, The Saxon and Norman Kings (London, 1967), pp. 62-65. P. Binski, Westminster Abbey and the Plantagenets (1995), p. 6. P. Binski, ‘Reflections on La Estoire de Seint Aedward le rei’, Journal of Medieval History, 16 (1990), p. 340 La Estoire de Seint Aedward le Rei: the Life of St. Edward the confessor, introd. M. R. James (Oxford, 1920), pp. 12-13 & 17.

Moreover, in the sub-category Criticisms, I suggest the addition of (1) Henry's countless money extortions and levying of heavy taxes which exhausted the kingdom (2) the king's collaboration with the papacy and his tolerance towards the pope's satellites; both caused the barons' and the english church's indignation. Ourania 16:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)RaniaOurania 16:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] An only child?

At the start of the article, it reads, "Henry III (1 October 1207 – 16 November 1272) was crowned King of England in 1216 despite only being a child."

Despite being an only child? This confuses me. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this sentence but Henry III was clearly NOT an only child at the time he was crowned king. Also, I think the sentence is really grouping un-related thoughts (crowning and family status).

Thank you.

Sorry - I wrote that sentence. What I meant was, he was not an adult when he was crowned, he was only 9 years old. I meant that "he was only a child" not "he was an only child". I will rewrite it to make it more clear - sorry for the inconvenience. 0L1 20:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

:Henry wasn't the first child-monarch of England, what about Edward the Martyr? GoodDay 19:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] By the Face at Lucca!

It says, among entries under Henry III's 'Personal details', that 'His favourite oath was "By the face of Lucca", referring to the Volto Santo di Lucca'. I don't know about Henry III, but this was true of William II! I have taken the liberty of editing this information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volto_Santo_of_Lucca (q.v.), since the source (Schaff) previously cited in the relevant footnote there actually refers to William II, not Henry III; if, in my ignorance, Henry III also subscribed to this oath as his favourite, then prima facie there is every reason to suppose that he derived it from his forebear William II - though why this should be, I couldn't say; and, if the latter is true, then William II's oath is arguably of more historical interest with regard to the Volto Santo di Lucca itself, being earlier. I have also added a reference to a printed edition of a primary source for this English royal oath, in the relevant footnote at the above page for the Volto Santo of Lucca; and, in the same footnote, I have expanded the reference to Schaff by means of an external link. I'll try to remember to edit this information on Henry III's page also, if there has been no contrary response to this post in a week or so; and, there being no mention of this on William II (Rufus)'s page, I shall now do some editing there, too.

Nortonius (talk) 18:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Where does Nortonius' idea that this oath was connected with William Rufus come from? --Wetman (talk) 17:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Wetman, did you see [1]? Nortonius (talk) 02:18, 29 March 2008 (UTC)