Talk:Henry H. Bauer

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[edit] Direct quoting

The last two sentences in this article were copied directly from [[1]]. Direct quotes should always be set off with quotation marks or otherwise designated as such. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 15:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC) I removed them. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 15:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] removing prod notice and notability tag

I'm removing a prod that stated:

Bauer's notability not established per WP:NOTE and WP:PROF. If he was indeed trained as a chemist, he does not seem to have contributed to the field for at least thirty years. He seems to be an obscure hobby writer on Loch Ness, AIDS denialism and other pseudoscience topics, not a recognized expert in his field. The sources for this article are inadequate, Bauer's own website and a college newsletter.[2]

I think that I have addressed the issues on the prod: he has made over the time regular contributions with books, papers and articles, on Isis (journal) his Loch Ness monster got reviewed, he seems a recognized expert on the field of the study of the scientific method, with his book "Scientific Literacy and the Myth of the Scientific Method" being used on university courses and cited on studies about what texts are used for education, and I have added a few more sources. With all above, and with having been a Emeritus Dean and still being a Emeritus Professor for Virginia Tech, it should fulfill WP:PROF criteria --Enric Naval (talk) 01:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] another henry bauer

looks like there is another famous Henry Bauer [3], so maybe the redirect Henry Bauer will become a stub some day. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:51, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] wiki with some info

Doh, I am now going through the article history, and turns out that there was already a quite complete wiki article on him [4]. I also found a transcript of one of his seminars hosted on that same site, which I have added as a source. I'll keep reviewing the history and adding stuff that I find there --Enric Naval (talk) 02:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Please be aware that that particular wiki is not a reliable source; it is devoted to advancing AIDS denialism and has few or perhaps just one contributor. It has been the subject of spamming by its creator here on Wikipedia in the past. If these are notable links, they'll be hosted on a more reliable source somewhere. MastCell Talk 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I have noticed it :D I only used their transcription, so readers can check the content of his ideas about AIDS. If there are doubts that the transcription might be incorrect, there I'll remove the link inmediately --Enric Naval (talk) 04:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moved from article: courses at schools using book in bibliography

Based on original research of primary document (course syllabi and the like):

"like the Scientific Inquiry common core course of Mercer University, [1], the Victorian Physics course of La Trobe University [2] and the Philosophy of Science course at Cap Poly Pomona [3] is cited on articles on scholar texts about the scientific method [4] and has a version for blind people at the Library of Congress. [5]"

I would suggest omitting this unless there's a second-party source reporting how Bauer's book is used in courses. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

If you notice, the paragraph does not make any assertion on how it's used, only that it's used. I don't think that I incur into OR because, I quote from the policy page, "(the sources) directly support the information as it is presented". The only part that could be "open to interpretation" would be the part about being cited on articles, but that's solved with rewording it. Notice that these all are assertions of notability as showing that his works are used on universities and cited on studies.
See, here you remove the proof that it was used at three different university courses, and then 5 minutes later you labelled it with "fact" here. Well, doh, do I really need a source that says "his books are used on the bibliography for university courses", is it enough to link to three university courses on three different universities that give it that exact same use? :P this comment of mine was inappropiate
If you want to report how the books are used exactly, then find a source for it and add it yourself. What I am sourcing here is a different thing. --Enric Naval (talk) 05:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll try to find a source that explicitally talks about the book being used on university courses (but I still think that these sources establish that the book is actually used on the bibliographies of university courses). I'll also try to find sources on the relevance of this book for the field of philosophy of science. --Enric Naval (talk) 20:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I won't object to using the sources you found as support for the book's use as a textbook...I would just suggest that we use them as sources only and not describe them in detail in the text. Thanks. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
You mean that we could use the source like this:

has been listed on the bibliography for several university courses[1][2][3]

without mentioning the name of the courses or the universities? --Enric Naval (talk) 05:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I would suggest. The book has been used, so I suppose we should mention it given the implications for WP:PROF, but spelling out the handful of courses and unis in the text seems over the top (IMO), especially if we compare Bauer with other textbook authors. For example, Eric Kandel does not even mention Kandel's widely-used textbook on neuroscience, much less give individual courses and schools that use it. Benjamin Lewin, author of perhaps the most widely-used text on genes, does not even have an article. Harvey Lodish, an editor of a famous textbook on molecular biology and a well-known scientist in his own right, doesn't have one either. The article for Bruce Alberts refers to the text he edits as "the standard cell biology textbook in most universities" without giving courses and schools. Perhaps it's unfair to compare Bauer with these scientists, since they put Bauer's "notability" in such stark perspective, but I suggest that their examples and WP:UNDUE should guide us here. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 14:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree that it belong here, but that it was over the top mentioning all the courses. I see that Eric_Kandel, on the references [3] and [4] makes the same sort of thing. States something, and then make a list of references without detailing (in the specific case of the courses, we can even try to stack the three courses on a single reference using bullet points).
(I'll look at a good article or a featured article on a researcher to see how it's done correctly)
For the other articles, of course, the solution is clicking on the red link and writing their articles :) --Enric Naval (talk) 16:12, 7 June 2008 (UTC)