Talk:Henry Benedict Stuart
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While Henry may have claimed to be "a Prince of England and of Scotland, Duke of York", he was not recognised as such by anyone other than Jacobites. The article should probably be amended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.149.50.59 (talk • contribs)
- He was, and is, recognised as a Prince by the British Royal Family, see for example [1]. DrKiernan 08:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cardinal
When someone is named as Cardinal, it is mentioned in their name; for example Thomas Cardinal Wolsey. Correct me if I am wrong.
- This is a style in the formal sense, meaning a format for a person's name and title. Checking eight English-language dioceses headed by cardinals, I found them split 50-50 between 'John Cardinal Smith' and 'Cardinal John Smith.' The in-the-middle style appears more formal (or in some views, more traditional), and is probably more common, but if Cardinal Roger Mahony of Los Angeles uses the title-first format (as he does on the archidiocesan web site), it would seem rude to tell him he's wrong. — OtherDave 16:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
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- What does that have to do with this article? I think this one should probably be at Henry Stuart, Cardinal-Duke of York, as this is how he is known. john k 20:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
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- I was simply replying to the anonymous comment above. Cardinal Henry Stuart is not incorrect; neither is Henry Cardinal Stuart. The disambiguation page for "Henry Stuart" offers the choice of "Henry Benedict Stuart, known as Cardinal Duke of York and King Henry IX. "Cardinal Duke of York" goes directly to Henry's page. — OtherDave 11:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Both titles are, in fact, incorrect, because he was called "Cardinal York," not "Cardinal Stuart". john k 16:07, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- I don't agree that either "Henry Cardinal" or "Cardinal Henry" is incorrect. Both forms of address for cardinals are common, accepted, and longstanding. Even the Hanoverian King George acknowledged Henry as a cardinal, though certainly not as duke of York. It seems reasonable that many people called (and call) him Cardinal Stuart.
- (I'm not objecting to the article title, by the way; this is just discussion.)
- I had not (as a Canadian-born descendant of ardent Jacobites) ever seen the phrase "Cardinal York," but after reading your comment I see it's easy enough to find on UK-based web sites (like the Royal Collection), so I've learned something from you.
- By the way, in Wikipedia "Cardinal York" already redirects to this page, so people searching that way will end up in the right place.
- — OtherDave 14:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Allegations
Should we assume that the diarist that was sicted here is trustworthy on th equestion of Cardinal's sexuality (homosexuality). I know that is being stated as a fact by some, but are we dealing with reliable sources here, whose agenda wasn't to discredit a Pretender in the eyes of the Protestant British people. Anchorite 21:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thrale certainly was in no position to know anything except gossip, as she was only a casual visitor to Rome. I'd like to see some citations for respectable academic opinion on this. The material given doesn't seem to really justify the positive statements made. Many of the cardinals had mistresses; is it possible that any who did not were liable to be presumed to be pooftahs without further discussion? Roger Pearse 15:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roger Pearse (talk • contribs)
The sources cited are wider than Thrale, and include Gorani and Moroni. But that should not mean that we should dismiss Thrale as any means unreliable. Incidentally I find the deragotary language that Roger Pearse has used above derogatory and distasteful. Wikipedia is a forum for proper intellectual debate, and not to demean and insult. Contaldo80 (talk) 15:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Henry-an English nobleman?
Born in Rome to a Polish mother and a half-Italian (and part French) father, Henry can hardly be described as an 'English nobleman' In truth there was very little English-or Scottish-blood in his veins. The only royal title he ever used, incidentally, was Henry IX, not 'Henry IX and I'. I know there were no 'King Henrys' of Scotland (well, actually, there was one) but this very modern national sensitivity towards issues of royal title should not be allowed to pollute the historical record. Rcpaterson 02:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
