Talk:Hen Ogledd

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Hen Ogledd is within the scope of WikiProject Celts, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Celts. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks or take part in the discussion. Please Join, Create, and Assess. The project aims for no vandalism and no conflict.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's quality scale.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's importance scale.
	After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses.

Hen comes first in Welsh; this should be Yr Hen Ogledd.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.240.122.161 (talk • contribs)

But perhaps not in Brythonic? ..dave souza, talk

The term is in Welsh and Welsh is a Brythonic Language. Changing- see http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymraeg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.27.175 (talk • contribs) 00:10, 20 June 2006

Not a reliable source and unconvincing to a non welsh speaker, but google backs it up, so moved. ..dave souza, talk 09:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Not to split hairs, but yr hen Ogledd is not Old Welsh. It's what Modern Welsh speakers call the region that was called gogled in Old Welsh (one d), at least in this transcription of the Gododin poem. You meant proto-Brythonic, I take it, dave souza?

I couldn't swear to this, but I thought that if hen followed the noun it meant 'ancient', whereas if it preceded the noun it just meant 'old'. Still, the only people on the web saying Gogledd hen are Wikipedia mirrors, so hen Ogledd seems better. QuartierLatin1968 20:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The map in Skene's Four Ancient Books of Wales just says Y Gogledd. Rather more recently McQuarrie ("The Kings of Strathclyde" in Grant & Stringer, Medieval Scotland, 1993) and Koch ("The Place of Y Gododdin in the History of Scotland", Celtic Connections: Proceedings of the tenth ICCS, 1999) use only Gwŷr y Gogledd, for which there are lots of gbooks hits of varying degrees of reliability. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it used to just be called 'the North' (y Gogledd), and you can still say this if the historical context is clear. But the reason for calling it the old North is that North Wales would otherwise come to people's minds... (or just the generic North as a cardinal point). QuartierLatin1968 00:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be "Y Hen Gogledd", since "H" is a consonant?--MacRusgail 19:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

No, "h" counts as a vowel for purposes of article selection; likewise "yr haf" (the summer), "yr haul" (the sun) etc. Edricson 09:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I noticed the welsh wikipedia has more on the Old North, and I was wondering if anyone can translate it. -G.T.N —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.46.64 (talk) 21:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)