Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 September 22

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[edit] September 22

[edit] Edit history

Is it possible to delete some histories from Jena High School. Thanks,Thedjatclubrock :) (T/C) 01:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)>

I don't think it's possible to delete a history, although upon examination I think I understand why you would want to do so, and sympathize. You may want to consider that since a significant section of the article is devoted to "Racial tension" it might be more valuable to demonstrate to readers that that sort of vandalism is not tolerated at Wikipedia and is quickly reverted or edited. I'm sorry not to be able to help you more. Accounting4Taste 01:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Specific versions of articles may be deleted by admins, although it should only be used if the version includes someone's personal information. --Agüeybaná 01:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Walt Disney's "Zorro" television series

There is a mistake on this page regarding the hour-long episodes aired on the Disney anthology series. The article stated that the episodes were shown in color and that they aired on NBC. This is incorrect. All four episodes were filmed in black-and-white and aired on ABC during the 1960-61 season, when the series was called "Walt Disney Presents." The show moved to NBC in the fall of 1961, where it was renamed "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color."

How do I make these corrections?

72.245.7.45 01:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You can learn about the mechanics of editing a page at Wikipedia:How to edit a page; anyone can edit a Wikipedia article. However, one important principle at Wikipedia is that content must be verifiable (click on the word "verifiable" to find out more about that policy). You need to be able to back up your assertion about Zorro with reference to an outside source -- a book or a magazine article, for instance -- that says so. My copy of The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV Shows doesn't seem to list Zorro separately, so you may need to do some digging. If you don't back up your assertions with a reference, someone else may come along and say that you're wrong and change it back to what it was... I hope this helps. If you need more information, leave a note on my talk page. Accounting4Taste 01:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please help me about Pokémon Cheating Encyclopedia if you can!

Help! I made an encyclopedia so people could get Pokémon cheats and glitches. I was being nice, so why was my page (Pokémon Cheating Encyclopedia) deleted?! And is there anything I can do about it?

Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not include how-to articles. (See WP:NOT#HOWTO). So Wikipedia might not be the place for an article on how to cheat in Pokemon. However, you might take a look at the Pokemon Wikiproject and see if you'd be interested in contributing there. --Bfigura (talk) 02:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I have put Pokémon Action Replay Encyclopedia up for CSD as well. User:Blair Bonnett replied to your earlier edit with this However, this is not suitable content for Wikipedia (see WP:NOT, specifically WP:NOT#HOWTO). If you want to create a Pokémon cheat wikia, you could try somewhere like Wikia or Bluwiki Blair - Speak to me 01:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC) . I think he said it perfectly. This type of content does not belong in an encyclopedia. Please see Pokemon wikiproject for how you can help edit Pokemon related articles. Woodym555 02:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
See: WP:WWMPD#If all else fails, try another wiki. You can search for a Pokémon-related wiki on WikiIndex. For example, try: wikiindex:Category:Games and wikiindex:Category:Pokemon. WikiIndex lists several Pokemon-related wikis, including The Pokémon Encyclopedia. Most wikis that specialize in a particular topic accept articles on that topic with fewer content restrictions than Wikipedia has. Which means your work is more likely to be acceptable on a wiki that specializes in Pokémon. --Teratornis 10:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Which is to say, I would have to slightly disagree with the "said it perfectly" assessment, since there was no mention of the suitable alternative wikis that already exist. Starting an entirely new wiki is much harder than editing on an existing wiki, so that would normally be a last resort. In general, it seems too few participants in deletion debates on Wikipedia are fully aware of the several thousand alternative wikis that already exist. Even worse, many of the new users who create new articles on Wikipedia that violate one or more of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines seem to be utterly unaware that there are other wikis besides Wikipedia (and I think Wikipedia needs to do a better job, somehow, of pointing this out to new users who try to create new articles). --Teratornis 10:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I think said it perfectly was a fairly adequate statement. I dont think it is neccessarily our job to mention every single other wiki. Most Wikipedia editors are here to help Wikipedia to develop. That being said the link to the Pokemon Encyclopedia is here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Home . I do think that some editors should be guided elsewhere in their endeavours because they have valuable contributions to make to other wikis. We can't provide a link to every other wiki though because, as you say there are thousands. Woodym555 10:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I have been thinking about this problem for some time; my notes are in: User:Teratornis/Outplacement. --Teratornis 23:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dale Wiley deleted for the wrong reason

I had an article deleted about Dale Wiley, saying that there was nothing notable about him to include him in Wikipedia. I thought it was notable that he was the only player (to best of knowledge) to have played pro basketball both as an able-bodied player and then later as a handicapped player after an accident. I also thought that other people would come across the page to either confirm and add on to the information, or to let us know why the information was no longer accurate. It doesn't help that his fame was from before the days of public internet. He did meet with then-President Ronald Reagan, and played a leading role in organizing the Para-Olympic Games. I have no conflict of interest here. I was simply trying to research Dale Wiley and found that nobody had anything about him in Wikipedia, so I thought I'd just post what I knew and see if more info could be added from other sources more knowledgable than myself. He could be a hero and role model for handicapped persons and specifically for wheelchair-bound persons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrommer (talk • contribs) 02:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You might want to contact the admin who deleted the article (User:Tawker) and see if he would be willing to copy it to your user-space, so that you can improve it. Alternatively, you could go to deletion review, and see if you can get it undeleted there. In either event, you'd also need to make sure that you can create an article with verifiable, independent, reliable sources. Best, --Bfigura (talk) 02:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
The article wasn't really written in a way that made his notability clear. It wasn't in an ordinary Wikipedia biography style. I'm not sure if you copied the text from somewhere else, but it would need to be completely rewritten. Leebo T/C 04:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] [Wikipedia Table of ] Contents

Recently, I'm experience the ineffectiveness of the "Content" section of Articles: When I Click on an item, it flickers, but nothing happens - I do not get to the section kisted!

Is that just my prblem? Or is it Vandalism on Wikipedia? Or what?
Best. --Ludvikus 05:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like a problem with your browser. Have you tried it on another browser or computer? It should work. Leebo T/C 05:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
WOW! My hat goes off to you (if I were wearing one)! You are Fast and Correct.
The problem was on Netscape. When I switched to Explore the problem disappeared!!!
Thanks so much?
Now how do I fix it? I Love Nescape, and can't stand Explorer!
Yours truly, --Ludvikus 05:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, can't help with that... I use Firefox. Perhaps the reference desk folks can help with a broswer issue. Leebo T/C 05:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
See the entries under WP:EIW#Browser. --Teratornis 10:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes, if a section is closed with the templates which "hide" the content of a section, you can't get to that section by clicking on the ToC. Corvus cornix 21:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where to ask for others to look at an article?

People need to look at the Judge Judy and Judith Sheindlin article. They've gained the attention of a user (and his many sockpuppets) who has been abusive and seems to think he owns the pages. He called me names and has slowly reverted all my edits (and the edits of others), calling them ridiculous and erroneous, and continually removes cleanup templates. Other uses have commented on the talk page about the article needing cleanup. Where do I ask for experienced Wikipedians to pay special attention to this article? I am not sure Request for Comments is the best place. Kat, Queen of Typos 07:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll put both pages on my watchlist. ByeNow is the abusive editor you mentioned? GlassCobra 07:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Also, if it starts to become a matter of policy violation, you could try AN/I. --Bfigura (talk) 07:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Kat, Queen of Typos 07:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I have left reminders about our civility policies at the talk pages of User:Lormos and User:ByeNow. It's plainly inappropriate for Lormos to use edit summaries like "Oh my fucking god did Rainbow really mess up this page" and to imply that you don't "do anything very useful" on Wikipedia (Talk:Judge Judy). Neither is it proper for ByeNow to call your edits "ridiculous" and tell you to "stop whining". I hope that they will read over the policies and change their approach to the conversation accordingly. It is of a bit of concern that your mention of indefinitely blocked user Tratare and potential sock puppetry was immediately removed from the page. If evidence develops to lead you to believe that such is the case, please consider seeking assistance at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets. --Moonriddengirl 12:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cell Phone Tracking

How do I track the location of a cell phone? <e-mail removed> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.202.204 (talk) 07:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

That's not really a question that belongs here. Try the reference desk. GlassCobra 07:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
See Cell phone tracking and you can search Wikipedia with Google for: GPS cell phone which finds some other articles that mention this topic. --Teratornis 10:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] article version number

How do I determine the article version number of a particular article? This is so I can use Wikipedia as a source in papers. I read the recommendation on how to reference and it suggested to add the article version number at the end of the URL for that page. However, where is the article version number located?

Thank you! gillian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.15.245 (talk) 08:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

  • You can see it by clicking the revision in the history. If you are talking about the most recent version, click: "permanent link" in the sidebar to the left. - Mgm|(talk) 08:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
You probably also want to check out Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. Confusing Manifestation 12:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] images

how to insert images in the articles of wikipedia?Are the images inserted already loaded somewhere in wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hedonister (talk • contribs) 09:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they are. To insert an image it first must be uploaded to the servers, then it can be added to articles. See Wikipedia:Uploading images and Wikipedia:Picture tutorial, and there are a lot of other helpful pages in this list. Raven4x4x 09:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] please do reply

plaese send me more research papers(if any ) on the subject of thermodynamics of ideal solutions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.245.43 (talk) 10:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You could start by reading the Ideal solution article. --Teratornis 10:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Try searching article databases like Pubmed or global ones at an academic library. - Mgm|(talk) 14:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
You can also search with Google Scholar. --Teratornis 21:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ctenophora

what is the structure of aboral sense organ in ctenophora? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.33.96 (talk) 10:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

If you don't find the answer by reading the Ctenophore article, you could try asking on the Reference desk. Or try: google:aboral organ ctenophore. --Teratornis 10:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there a way to create your own private experiment page?

I have a future article in mind, but my plan for this article involves a table which will be time consuming to create, and I'd rather make the table before putting it into the article. I'm just wondering how that works, if such a thing exists. DandyDan2007 11:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You can create a sandbox in your userspace. Just click on User:DandyDan2007/Sandbox and away you go. You might want to take a look at Wikipedia:Subpages as well. Woodym555 11:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Using with research function in MS Office

What url is used to include Wikipedia in the research function for MS Office? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fozzel (talk • contribs) 12:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You could try this URL:
I like this one, because Google Search often gives better results than Wikipedia's built-in Help:Search method:
The URL behind that link is:
Also see: WP:EIW#Search for information about many ways to search Wikipedia. Disclaimer: I don't know how you would integrate a search URL into Microsoft Office. If it's just a matter of pasting in a URL somewhere, then you can use one of the above URLs. --Teratornis 23:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] copyrights

The following image has the following Licensing message attached to it. the same message is attached to the maps of the British, Portuguese and French empire maps. does the license message mean that i have the right to use this map in a publication of my own?


Image:DutchEmpire.png

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License".


also, there were animated maps of the same empires that have now been taken off the article. is this because these maps had copyright infringements? or because they were invalid?

Dent09 12:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the GFDL, which you can read in full at that link, gives you the right to duplicate the content within. It's the same license Wikipedia uses for all of its content. You can find more information here. Unfortunately, I'm not sure why the image was removed, but it's likely there was some form of copyright problem, or a consensus was reached somewhere that a static map works better for our purposes. You're free to look it up in the page history if you like - it's probable whoever removed the image left behind an edit summary explaining their actions. Hersfold (t/a/c) 15:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

I can't create footnotes correctly. What could I be doing wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.101.86.117 (talk) 14:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:FOOT has all the details, but a common mistake is not adding <references/> or {{reflist}} to the bottom of the page. --h2g2bob (talk) 14:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Also be sure to close your inline references with </ref>. That one gets me all the time :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saturn 5 (talk • contribs) 17:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, thank you sinebot. :P Saturn 5 17:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IGCSE history question on why did some industries not share in the 'boom'? this is during 1919-1941

Q1... explain how new technology affected some older industries?

Q2... explain what impact the tariff had on certain industries?

Q3... explain the reason why the wages of workers in certain industries remained low in comparison to profits.

Q4... why should the government have been concerned about poverty in the USA during the 1920's?

Q5... do you think the government would do anything to help these workers? why ?

Q6... explain whether you agree or disagree with this statement? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.69.179.16 (talk) 15:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The help desk is for questions on USING Wikipedia ONLY. try asking that question at the Reference Desk. DeSalvionjr Talk | Contribs 15:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Note, however, that the reference desk is not there to do your homework for you. You're not going to learn anything by not doing the work yourself. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hidden search box

Have you considered placing the search box closer to the top of the welcome page.

As the box now is located, I find I cannot view it even at the bottom of the 1st page. I must scroll down to it on the left of my screen.

Most people, I would bet, come to Wikipedia to search for something and not to read the articles - though they are of interest, generally worth looking at.

Why not place the search box where it is immediately visible at the top of your 1st page ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.0.184 (talk) 16:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

It's visible on my screen. Try making your font size smaller in your browser, or adjusting your screen's resolution. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about this anyway, as such changes would have to be made by the MediaWiki developers. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
It's right in the middle of the left side of my screen when I'm at the top. Of course, I have a larger than average resolution. Try increasing your screen resolution. Leebo T/C 17:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
If you go to Special:Preferences and change skin to Classic or Cologne Blue then the search box should be at top, but many other thnigs change at the same time. PrimeHunter 18:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Haven't received e-mail with new password

Hi. I registered a couple days ago, and when I logged in yesterday I apparently forgot my password. I hit the "e-mail new password" button, but I haven't received an e-mail yet. I tried to hit the "e-mail new password" button again, but it says I've already had an e-mail with a new password sent to me.

I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer.

69.183.180.185 17:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

First, I'd check to see if the email is getting trapped in a spam filter somewhere. Other than that, there isn't a way to recover the password without having access to the email address that originally registered it. So I'd suggest creating a new account. Best, --Bfigura (talk) 17:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
If your account had a number of edits, you might want to paste a link on the new accounts page informing people that the previous account was yours. --Тhε Rαnδom Eδιτor 23:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use images from another (language) Wikipedia

Hi,

how can I use an image in my article, if the image has been uploaded to a different Wikipedia? To be more specific: I wrote an article in the English Wikipedia and uploaded an image for this article. Now I would like to use the same image for the German article. Using the standard command didn't work, however. So, how do I have to do this? I bet there is another way than simply uploading the same image to the German Wiki.

Your help is appreciated, thank you!

Regards

- spitfire —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spitfire ch (talk • contribs) 18:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Since the image you uploaded is being used under a claim of fair use, you will need to upload it again on the German Wiki, sorry. If it was an freely licensed or public domain image, you could have uploaded it to the Commons instead and been able to do this. It's not possible to link to images across languages due to the limitations of the software, and the German Wiki would need a local copy of the fair use rationale in German. Sorry. Hersfold (t/a/c) 18:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I see, I will upload the images to common from now on, I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for your help! --Spitfire ch 18:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Hang on there - You can't upload fair use or copyrighted images to the Commons. They won't accept them, they're very likely to get deleted, and you're very likely to get blocked over there if you do so. Fair use images MUST be uploaded to the project you intend to use them on locally. Hersfold (t/a/c) 19:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
But also check to see what the German Wikipedia's fair use policy is (it will probably be linked on the image upload page). I believe they have a much stricter policy than here. Confusing Manifestation 22:36, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Storm Thorgerson & my band

Okay. So my band's page had been deleted a while back. It is now back up. But now, I'm having trouble linking our band's name from Storm Thorgerson's wiki to ours. He did our first album cover.

band name: Program The Dead. any help would be appreciated.

P.S. our Title says "Program the dead" We prefer it have a capital D. ANy help on how to fix this if it can be fixed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by HelsinkiValo (talk • contribs) 19:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I fixed both and now the article is at Program the Dead as you asked. AngelOfSadness talk 19:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Information

I've recently joined a site that wants to create their own wiki, it is a fan based website and the site does not have much information on the characters included in the wiki, I was wondering if there is any rules against or any regulations which means I can't copy the information from wikipedia, and use it on the site. I was wondering if this is allowed or not? I thought it would be best to check first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.21.98 (talk) 20:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You can reuse Wikipedia content as long as you comply with the GNU Free Documentation License. See Wikipedia:Reusing Wikipedia content for more information. WODUP 20:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acronym versus name

I noticed that "Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency" redirects to DARPA. Is this correct or should the acronym redirect to the actual name of the agency? I am wondering because I added a redirect from "Homeland Security Adv..." to HSARPA similarly, but this does not seem appropriate. Micah J. Manary 20:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I read the discussion on the DARPA page about this issue, but the only reason given is that "DARPA" is what is used my the media/public. Is HSARPA even well known enough to be used by one name or another? Micah J. Manary 21:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (abbreviations). PrimeHunter 22:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Basically what that says is to use whichever is more common. I'd go with the precedent set by DARPA in this case and leave "Homeland Security blah blah" redirecting to HSARPA. The acronym's a lot shorter and easier to search for anyways. Hersfold (t/a/c) 22:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turning a math into a non-math

I have a title that I want to use involving the sign "X" (which can commonly stand for multiplication) as well as the "=" sign that I wish to use for the title. But every time I try to use it, Wiki treats it like a math equation, even with text words. How do I stop this? -StrangerAtaru 21:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

what exactly is the title? Micah J. Manary 21:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

  • 真拳×闇拳×拳＝暴走 ({{{2}}}?) (the full information is in the edit, it just comes up weird on the actual Wiki -StrangerAtaru 22:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I guess you are referring to equal signs in the template in [1]. It doesn't matter how you write multiplication. An equal sign in a template is usually interpreted by the software as an assignment to a parameter so your code produces this which doesn't work:
  • 172. 真拳×闇拳×拳＝暴走 ({{{2}}}?)

Here is one way to fix it (click edit to see what I did):

  • 172. Shinken X Yamiken X Fist = Running Wild (真拳×闇拳×拳＝暴走 Shinken x Yamiken x Kobushi = Bōsō?)

Here is another way where I replaced each = with {{equals}}:

  • 172. Shinken X Yamiken X Fist = Running Wild (真拳×闇拳×拳=暴走 Shinken x Yamiken x Kobushi = Bōsō?)
Is this what you want? PrimeHunter 22:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Ah, thanks! The second one seems to fit better since it requires less of the knowledge of the 1/2/3 thing) —Preceding unsigned comment added by StrangerAtaru (talk • contribs) 22:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes (again)

I include the tag at the bottom of my page, and I also include the opening and closing tags all the time. What else could I be doing wrong? I've checked the help list but I still can't figure it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.101.86.117 (talk) 23:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you save a test edit that doesn't work, selfrevert it if it's in an article, and post a link to it? It's much easier for us to see what you are doing wrong than guessing it. PrimeHunter 23:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes indeed we need the name of the article you are having problems at. --Тhε Rαnδom Eδιτor 23:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I need some information about Pearl Harbor..

how did the Pearl Harbor begin and Why did it happened? In what year did this war begin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.70.113.3 (talk) 23:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

We're not here to help you with your history assignments. —[[Animum | talk]] 23:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Try seaching information on your own by entering "Pearl Harbor" in our search box or at http://www.google.com. PrimeHunter 23:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Try taking a look at Attack on Pearl Harbor. --Тhε Rαnδom Eδιτor 23:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Right-aligned link on same line as other text without newline

I'm making a page that will be transcluded into a small-ish box on several article Talk pages (example), and I want a right-aligned "[Edit]" link on the same line as the center-aligned title ("FAQ"). How do I do this without adding a new line?

My goal is to remove the whitespace the [Edit] link current adds between the title and the first bullet list item. / edg ☺ ★ 23:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You could try a single-row table. I've edited the page for you already, the code looks like this:
{| width="100%" style="background:none; border:0px;" class="plainlinks"
|-
| width=25% | <!-- intentionally blank cell -->
| align=center width=50% | '''FAQ'''
| align=right width=25% |[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Pink_Floyd/FAQ&action=edit Edit]
|}
And produces:
FAQ Edit
Hope this is what you were looking for; if not, please feel free to revert. Hersfold (t/a/c) 03:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for this! / edg ☺ ★ 03:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC)