Talk:Helena (Dead or Alive)

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[edit] Two Bikini pictures

  • I believe there is no reason to have two biki pics of Helena in the article. Its redundant and represents fancuft. I think we should take one (or both) of them out. Does anyone object to my thesis..? If not, I'll remove one of them.-MegamanZero 08:18, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I see what your saying. however, the one pic illustrates what Helena appears like in CGI. it's the only cgi pic I could find of her--Phil 08:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Ah..I see what you mean. Then we should take out the DOA2 biki pic the, and label the CG image with: "Helena in CG".-MegamanZero 08:40, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The other one is basically unlockable game art, and as a result, of equal value. It think we just have to face the fact that the designers really like putting "babes in bikinis." Not that anyone minds I'm sure.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 23:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I wouldn't go as so far to say of "equal value", but I will say the unlockable art is worth keeping in the article becasue its thesis representation of the developer's view on sex appeal. however, its that's so, we need to insert biki pics in all the (female) articles, if Helena has it, so should everyone else.-MegamanZero |transerver 23:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Upon more thought, they are both wasteful. I've put the unlockable bikini art up for deletion for lack of encyclopediac value and redundancy. -ZeroTalk 16:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

(SIGH) No-one wears a one-piece any-more...Atomic45 08:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC) well then why are both pictures gone now??? Dark reaper6789 16:51, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image Revert

Snipped Wikipedia image rules as no longer relevant to the discussion Altherix 13:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC) Also, I realize the image is dark, it is during Helena's ending in DOA4, which takes place outside at night, it's suppose to be dark. If an issue, I'll pull out my capture of her DOA:Ultimate ending which is brighter, but if I remember is not a high-quality capture.

Altherix 17:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Working with the image, this might be a better one to use if the existing one is still too dark.
Lightened Image
Altherix 03:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
The existing picture is still a bit too dark. The picture you linked is much better. --Snkcube 09:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Has been changed to the lighter image I linked, I take it 420px is too big on the page as well, you set the size to 250px, wasn't sure what's considered standard.
Altherix 12:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DOA2 History Entry

I'm seeing major errors if not made up stuff in Helena's DOA2 history entry.

In all my years of playing DOA games, reading manuals and interviews with Tomonobu Itagaki, head of Team Ninja, never once have I heard any connection between Gen Fu and DOATec let alone Fame Douglas.

Would like to know the source of this, in fact Wikipedia's own Gen Fu entry mentions nothing of his association with Fame Douglas. I will edit this later unless someone brings a reference to why it was put in there in the first place.

Also, it has never been explained how Helena got information on DOATec's inner workings, only that she became aware of such things on her quest to avenge her mother. The entry through her father's contacts is an assumption, not based on any source material, game endings, manuals or interviews to my knowledge.

Same applies to the rumor of Ayane being her mother's killer, it doesn't come from any game source I'm aware of, only when the two encounter in DOA2 she accuses Ayane of it. Considering DOATec messed with the Ninja Clan members, Kasumi, Hayate and Genra one could assume she figured they were after vengence on her for it.

Unfortunately, assumption IMO can't be used for such entries and should be changed to reflect this.

I'm currently pulling up old manuals and interviews to make sure I haven't missed anything in relation to these errors I'm seeing. It will be awhile.

Altherix 17:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Just preliminary proposed edit to DOA2 History entry:

[edit] Dead or Alive 2

Helena is the illegitimate daughter of Fame Douglas and his mistress Maria - a world class soprano opera singer. Seemingly distant from her father and his work, when he was murdered, she was hardly affected.

Helena followed in her mother's footsteps, becoming a famous opera singer in her own right. While performing, she was targeted by an unknown assassin using a sniper rifle. Maria, who was present with her, spotted the rifle at the last second and dove in front of her daughter. She was killed instantly. The assassin fled, leaving Helena alone and covered in her mother's blood.

Helena set out for vengeance. She soon discovered that the murder was connected with the second Dead or Alive World Tournament. Helena entered the tournament to discover the truth.

Although never explained in the series Helena appears to have learned or known information pertaining to DOATec. Most notably the ill-fated 'Epsilon project' when she encountered Ein, (The then suffering from amnesia Hayate ) and recognized him from the 'Epsilon project', commenting, "I heard Project Epsilon was a failure."

Ein, wanted to know what Helena knew of 'Project Epsilon', she only responded that he no longer appeared to be under mind control and the two fought.

During the tournament she also encounters Ayane; in the encounter she accuses Ayane of being her mother's murderer. Ayane neither confirms nor denies having killed Helena's mother, after which a fight breaks out between the two. This issue is never brought up again in the series to why she accused Ayane of the murder.

At the end of the second Dead or Alive World Tournament, Helena has still not found who her mother's murderer is and reflects on her lost mother in her ending.
At the end of the second Dead or Alive World Tournament, Helena has still not found who her mother's murderer is and reflects on her lost mother in her ending.

Altherix 16:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Entry has been updated Altherix 23:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DOA3 History Entry

After redoing and researching DOA2's history entry, I've come to realize it's too short compared with what happened in the game with Helena. About the same amount of things happened in DOA3 as happened in DOA2 with Helena's storyline. Entry should be just as descriptive as the DOA2 entry, not just a short summary from the game's manual, which is all it currently is.

[edit] Dead or Alive 3

Helena is captured by Donovan and imprisoned. He tells her that the only way to obtain her freedom is to win the third tournament. In the meantime, Donovan assigns Christie to keep an eye on Helena and, should the need arise, kill her if she discovers too much.

Encounter with Christie and Helena stating, "DOATec is my father's concern"
Final encounter with Christie and her revealing to be an assassine.

[edit] DOA4 History Entry

Reading that entry, it's nothing more then Helena's ending writeup, talks nothing of her asking Bayman to kill Donovan or the fact Kokoro is her half-sister. Also, Lisa, La Mariposa was the one who selected Ein for Project Epision, all in Helena's storyline of the game.

Major error, Helena didn't confront Christie, Christie confronted Helena when she was on her way to the DOATec's Tri-towers self-destruct. Helena, still didn't know Christie had killed her mother until Christie told her, "You still haven't figured it out

[edit] Dead or Alive 4

In Dead or Alive 4, Helena finally finds out that Christie killed her mother and confronts her. The end result to their fight is left unknown, other than that both survive. In her CG Ending, Helena decides to go down together with DOATEC and subsequently sets the Tritower complex on self-destruct. Plagued by flashbacks of her deceased mother she moves up to the helipad between the three towers that make up the complex. Meanwhile Ayane, Hayate, and Ryu Hayabusa are using ninpo powers to destroy the towers and the DOATEC security forces, while Kasumi battles her clone.

Helena is about to be consumed by the flames of the burning buildings as Zack saves her, flying in with a chopper.

[edit] Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball Entry

Minor edit, probabily not needed but just put in to make the entry longer.

[edit] Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball

Helena was invited to Zack Island for the fourth Dead or Alive Tournament. However, the tournament is revealed to be a hoax and Helena learns that the other female DOA participants, are stuck on the tropical island for two weeks.

During the two weeks with the other DOA girls, Helena becomes nostalgia walking on the beaches of Zack Island. She reveals more of her rich upbringing by commenting "This room is so small." about her living quarters during her stay.

[edit] Helena's end CG (DoA4)

Who is the dark-haired woman that gets shot in the head during Helena's end CG in DoA4? I've been wondering about this for quite a while, and the wiki file doesn't even mention it. Was it perhaps Kokoro's mother? - Arnizipal 22:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Her name is Anne and she was one of Fame Douglas' mistesses, but she conspired with Donovan to kill Douglas...problem solved...

Thanks for the info nameless stranger ;)
Might I ask where you got it from? Also, who was it that shot her? - Arnizipal 23:43, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure about that, but she seems to be the girl who was responsible of control panels of the building. That's why Helena kills her and then activates the self-distruction system. I know sound weird, but you can actually see Helena getting something from her right sleeve, and right after the gun shooting. It doesn't prove anything, but for me makes sense. Exephyo from it.wiki --85.18.136.105 08:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Surname

Is her surname Douglas? I'm sure it is. - The 4th Snake 21:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is. It seems someone has edited that out for the most part. - Arnizipal 18:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the article should be called "Helena Douglas". That redirects to "Helena (DOA)" but I say it should be the other way around. - The 4th Snake 20:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The problem with using "Douglas" as her surname, is the fact she's an illegitimate child, her mother Maria was never married to Fame so never took his name. Of course, no one knows what Maria's maiden name is so they usually default Helena's to Douglas. IMO, until it's cleared up by the creators it shouldn't be added. Altherix 01:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I see. - The 4th Snake 18:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

In the DOA4 credits she is still called Helena Douglas though, and the the most recent official source we have... - Arnizipal 23:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

And when you highlight her ending in DOA 4, her name is listed as "Helena Douglas." The 4th Snake 19:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I checked, that's correct which is surprising considering previously she didn't have a last name. Perhaps DOA4's storyline of her taking control of her father's business, DOATec led Team Ninja to give her a last name, will have to wait for DOA5 to see IMO. In that case, a change to her name would not be incorrect. Altherix 23:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DOAX 2

Isn't it a bit early to start adding info about Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volley 2? There's hardly any info on the background of the game yet. - Arnizipal 20:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Not if the info is relevant and comes from offical sources, the last two reference sources have the info, besides this week is when the game comes out. Also, the games background isn't all that complex, I wager all previews at any gaming website have all the background, specifics on characters will come about after game release, if there's anything more to add. BTW, it's Dead or Alive Xtreme 2, there's no Volleyball in the title this time. Altherix 13:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Ah my mistake. Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 it is. But I was thinking more in terms of the entry for DOAX. Short, simple and to the point. Nothing that happens on the island is true canon anyway apart from the girls being there (and not killing each other for some reason). But we don't know their reason to go to New Zack Island yet (and I doubt they'll fall for the same trick twice). Anyway, keep us posted. The game isn't out here in Belgium until the end of the year. - Arnizipal 20:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] no single quality image?

can we add a quality screeshot?

there's 2 image now. One on a face close up, another on the side. Both are kinda off. There's no single image showing her full body, or how she'd normally appear in the game. Xah Lee 05:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, although looking at other entries for various characters in the series full body shots are not used often. More have head shots vs full-body, so this isn't a huge deviation from other DOA character entries. Finding one is the issue as any current images for best quality would have to be captured with HD capture equipment since DOA4 and DOAX2 are both in HD. Altherix 23:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fighting Style Changes

I would like an explination to why there seems to be a fight over her fighting style? This isn't something up for debate here, the creators of the character say it's Pi Qua Quan not Baguazhang. Look it up at DOA4 Official Siteor read a game manual. It's Pi Qua Quan, this is not up for discussion unless the creators change it. Altherix 23:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

P0lyglut, if this is an issue that Pi Qua Quan has no Wikipedia entry or some other reason I'm not seeing please explain. The fact does remain that her character is given the fighting style Pi Qua Quan in the DOA series. We are talking here about a fictional character in a fictional universe, trying to apply real-world fighting styles doesn't work as it's incorrect. Only reason I can see why you insist in changing it, otherwise please help me understand why. Altherix 17:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the correction. Xah Lee 08:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone is going to have to make a Pi Qua Quan entry on Wikipedia as Pi Qua Quan is Pi Qua Quan. (Exact working of style).

Quick look up on the web has found info on Pi Qua Quan:

Pi Qua Quan is a style of Northern Shaolin Kungfu. "Pi" means "chop", which is a kungfu technique of striking the arm from top downward and inward,"Qua" means "hang", which is s reverse of "chop", i.e. striking downward but outward, and "Quan" means "kungfu". Pi Qua Quan, therefore, is a comparatively hard style of kungfu using the arms to strike an opponent, and employing long stances.

However,during the Qing Dynasty, Pi Qua Quan which is a hard and long style, was combined with Monkey Style Kungfu, which is just the opposite, i.e. a soft and short style. This combination is known as Da Sing Pi Qua Men. "Da Sing" which means "Great Sage" refers to the Monkey God, and "Men" which literally means "Gate", figuratively refers to a style of kungfu. This kungfu style is very different from Taijiquan. Sifu Chan Sau Choong of Hong Kong is the patriarch of Da Sing Pi Qua Men.

More info:

In this fighting system the combination of high distance to short distance is very important! A good “Pi Qua Quanist” never lets his opponent to come near him/her.

In some cases Pi Qua Quan can be compared with a windmill, because of its flowing movements.

Very interesting seems that it gained its name from the movements of the hands during the offense. Pi Qua Quan can be very good and effective used with a whip.

An entry is going to have to me made to link to in Wikipedia, Pi Qua Quan is practiced today but finding info about it is hard.Altherix 17:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Alterix, i'm not seeing how this google result you cite is ver different from the wikipedia article abou t it. Xah Lee 11:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Piguaquan: chop-hitch fist. Pi Qua Quan: chop-hang fist, from what I'm understanding, but like I said research is going to have to be done, I really don't trust web results honestly. But the fact the two styles are of different names and even descriptions tells me they're not the same style. Altherix 21:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:HelenaDOA2Ending.JPG

Image:HelenaDOA2Ending.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:HelenaDOA4Ending.jpg

Image:HelenaDOA4Ending.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)