Talk:Hedwig of Andechs
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Uhhh - I removed a statement both incoherent and strange. Somehow referring to the Russians and the Golden Horde in a subordinate clause in an entry on Hedwig of Andechs seems unencyclopedic. MichaelTinkler
- rerouted the Khans, which then turned back, but on the way subjugated Russia for two hundred years.
[edit] Patron of the expelled Silesians ?
Can somebody give reference for that ? Is she the patron of Poles declared subhumans end expelled by Germany to be exterminated as a nation, or to Germans who fled or were moved by the Allies to Germany post-war ? Or both of them(that would be strange). Is there any reference confirming this ? --Molobo (talk) 00:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
- She is Schutzheilige or Landespatronin of Schlesien and of the Schlesier, no matter where they live currently, like in Andechs, Bavaria, were relics of her are kept. There is already a Further reading book stating that in its title, stop demanding references for the seven century old obvious. You are proving once again that Poles have no clue about the countries they, by the grace of St. alin, occupy since 1945. -- Matthead discuß! O 13:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
- In other words, you have no reference for that, only WP:OR of yours? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 05:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you, PP, for proving my point once again: No clue. You were missing that I already twice had given sources [1] [2] about the blatant obvious fact that the Schlesier which have been expelled about 60 years ago by communist, nationalist and Catholic Poles still consider her as patron saint, just like in the 700 years at home in Silesia. An awful lot of ignorance is required to regard a 700 year old tradition as "original research". -- Matthead DisOuß 07:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- Try to familiarize yourself with the concept of inline citations. Once again, I ask you: which of your refs states clearly that this person is a saint of Silesian expellees? Please provide relevant quotation here.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 09:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you, PP, for proving my point once again: No clue. You were missing that I already twice had given sources [1] [2] about the blatant obvious fact that the Schlesier which have been expelled about 60 years ago by communist, nationalist and Catholic Poles still consider her as patron saint, just like in the 700 years at home in Silesia. An awful lot of ignorance is required to regard a 700 year old tradition as "original research". -- Matthead DisOuß 07:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- In other words, you have no reference for that, only WP:OR of yours? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 05:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I know that Hedwig is the patron saint of Silesians (evidenced for example by St. Hedwig's Cathedral, Berlin's oldest Catholic Church, built for the Catholic Silesians who moved to Berlin after parts of Silesia had been annexed or conquered by Prussia, being named for her). I find it easy to believe that Silesian expellees have not stopped treating her as their patron just because they no longer live in Silesia. In fact, I find it so obvious that I don't quite see why it needs to be explicitly stated. It is certainly pointless to start a {{cn}} war over it. Kusma (talk) 11:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- That she is a patron of Silesians is not disputable. That emmigrants (or refugees) built churches dedicated to Saints from regions they came from is common (just look around US). But to stress the 'expelles' part is simply WP:UNDUE; not to mention incorrect - is she not a patron of the Silesians who emmigrated, or those who still live in Silesia (part of which is in modern Germany, too)?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 19:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- That she is patron of Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and Germans that make out the population of Silesia and had in the past is of course correct. I don't think that Catholic Church or any other had degreed that only German expelles are Silesians while Polish population expelled as subhumans by German state in 1939-1945 from Silesia (circa 80.000 IIRC) in it quest to exterminate whole nations is not. The information that Germans who were transfered after the lost war transfered consider her a patron is already contained in the text, however I don't think Poles declared subhumans and ethnicly cleansed by Germany in 1939-1945 don't hold special services to her as far as I know, so the general text about Silesians seems OR. --Molobo (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
St. Hedwig was highly admired by the German Silesians because they considered her to be one of the earliest and biggest patrons of the Ostsiedlung (the same is true for some early Piast dukes btw.). Because of this she became something like a tragic symbol after the expulsion. Karasek (talk) 19:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
- Is she less revered by non-German Silesians? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 06:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
- I have no idea. Hedwig was of course always admired for her kindness, her faith, her humility and so on. That's what made her a saint and special to all Silesians (Germans, Poles and Czechs). But to German Silesians she was significant as a patron of the Ostsiedlung too, something which was less important to Czechs and Poles. So, to German Silesians she was both a saint and a symbol for their own history. Karasek (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
