Talk:Hedgehog

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Vandalism

What is this? "Chrudiana is the most coSuperscript textmmen specimen and is also beleived to be the most gourgus out of all, with skuxx eyes and lushious lips dont underestimate her looks..." Could someone please remove it? Thanks.

This article is on Wikipedia. That means that you can remove vandalism. Just click "edit this page" when reading the article. --Kainaw (talk) 15:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I am not one to encourage vandalism, but this has me rolling on the floor in laughter (aka rofl) "A hedgehog is a government conspiracy and they don't exist. They are covered up with the help of NASA and GPS companies. Hedgehogs aren't real but just a clever fabrication to divert the publics attention from the earths oil and greenhouse gas crisis." this and the bit about hedgehogs living in trees... I don't know why this is such a targeted article for vandals, and I'll start trying to help... but at least it's clever! Orbframe 09:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC) The bot says that it has replaced the "cheese and ricew", but for some reason it still appears on my screen. Some help here? (And how do you sign these things?)128.208.60.88 (talk) 00:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC) Ahh... I found the problem. Apparantly in the source for this page (not the one you can access through the "edit" tab, but the actual HTML source) still has the only content on the screen to be "cheese and ricew". Can somebody change this? 128.208.60.88 (talk) 00:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

During high load times, it can take Wikipedia a few minutes to catch up with the latest edits. That is all that happened. -- kainaw™ 00:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] hedgehogivorous?

Why is it an "unlikely claim"? I've often heard that hedgehogs were edible, and certainly people have been known to eat weirder animals. Mhari 02:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry; I wasn't very clear. It does seem reasonable that hedgehogs would be edible. I was thinking about the later part of that edit, where it said you could fillet one by coating it in plaster, baking it, and then smashing the plaster. I did a google search on "hedgehog" and "plaster" and didn't immediately see anything relevant, although I admit I didn't look very hard. If you suspect the plaster cooking thing might be a real practice, I'll welcome a revert of my edit. --Allen 02:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, this is supposed to be a Gypsy recipe: hedgehog baked in clay (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Hedgehog, and this is not the only source - google (gypsy hedgehog clay) and you'll find more), so I will revert the edit to the older version. --Cyberodin 10:49, 28 January 2006
It is also the African method of cooking hedgehogs. Coat them with mud, cook, break away the baked clay and eat. --Kainaw (talk) 17:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
That's very cool. Thanks for correcting me. I'd hate for that to have been left out of the article, now that I know. I'm changing the wording a bit, though; I think Roma is a better word to use than gypsy. Also, I couldn't find anything in the google references about the clay/plaster helping remove the bones as well as the spines, leaving only meat. People talk about the spines, and that I can see, but the bones I don't get. But I'm not going to change that, because at this point I'm willing to entertain just about any claim relating to hedgehogivory. --Allen 03:13, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't know about the bones. As for the quills, this method also makes them easy to get as the quills were used as tools. Since they are hollow, they can hold ink as well as a feather. They are sharp, so they can used as a needle. If the sharp end is snipped, they make pretty bead-like things. Personally, I keep them in a little jar. After three hedgehogs, two going through the adolecent quilling, I have a lot of them (many pulled out of the bottom of my feet). --Kainaw (talk) 03:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

who put that there were hedgehog chips in england on this article? because it was porcupine, not hedgehog... i've had them, they're quite good actually —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.5.1.167 (talk) 21:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] European hedgehog removal

OK, I wrote a couple of stubs on hedgehogs here and I was wondering if it would be fair enough to "demote" European Hedgehog even more in this article and write on geographical variety of hedgehogs or something, instead of focusing solely on European hedgehog.

When the European Hedgehog article first split, I suggested it be put back in this article because it was such a short article. My suggestion went up for vote on Articles for Deletion and the vote was to keep it. I feel that it should contain information specifically about European hedgehogs (see the Domesticated hedgehog article for example), or is should be part of the main article. Kainaw 19:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pest Control

According the article, the hedgehog was introduced as pest control in Wales and New Zealand. In both areas, it has become a pest itself. Are there any cases where the introduction of the hedgehog as pest control worked - meaning that the hedgehog did not become a pest? I think it would be clearer to put in 'history' that the introduction of hedgehogs for pest control in (list of countries) has not worked well because the hedgehog itself has become a pest. Kainaw 14:52, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am working on a new section The Hedgehogs as Pest Control to emphasize usage of the hedgehog as pest control. In areas where it is indigenous, it has been adopted as a cute form of pest control. In areas where it has been artificially introduced, it has become a pest itself. Kainaw 12:54, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I corrected the original reference of 'Scotland' to 'the islands of Scotland'. European hedgehogs are indigenous to Scotland, but not all of its islands. scruss 17:56, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganization

I reorganized this article. Initially it only contained information on the European hedgehog. The Domesticated hedgehog was added as a secondary section. Both are very similar and there are even other species of hedgehogs. So, I made the initial article generally about all hedgehogs. Then, I made the Eurpoean section about specific European hedgehog qualities. I made the Domestic section about specific domestic qualities. I also added a history section to mention Hedgehog Day and the old term 'urchin' Kainaw 20:08, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I made an edit that I'm sure will anger a small group of people, but I feel it is justified. The edit was splitting the EXTERNAL LINKS section of Domesticated Hedgehogs into two lists. The first list contains links to sites owned and operated by those who do not breed or sell hedgehogs. The second list is for hedgehog breeders, understanding that most hedgehog breeder sites also contain information about hedgehogs.

Why do this? There are many reasons, all very small. Added up, I think it makes sense. First, Wikipedia is for information, not marketing. Putting information above marketing seems fair to me. However, I feel you should still be able to add a link to your commercial venture as long as it is on topic. In this case, adding a link to a hedgehog breeder is on topic.

Not only are breeders on topic, I think that separating them is good because it makes it quick and easy for a web surfer to find the breeder links and click on one without going through websites that only contain information.

Finally, I listed all of the links in alphabetical order in order to avoid giving precedence to any specific website. I know that when money is involved, it is important to get on top.

[edit] Eating Fame?

"If it ever has been found eating poultry or fame". What does "eating fame" mean? -phma

Well, we really should ask the editors of the 1881 Household Cyclopedia, but if I had to guess, I would guess it's a typo for "game." Someone -- meaning "not me" -- really should replace the text with something a little more cyclopedic and a little less twee. --the Epopt

Done. And here's the Cyclopedia version in case there's more info to be taken from it. -- Tarquin 16:33 Jan 7, 2003 (UTC)

From the 1881 Household Cyclopedia

This little animal, the object of persecution, not only to little boys but to the farmer and gamekeeper, on account of its supposed mischievous propensities, is in fact one which the agriculturist should endeavor to preserve, as it is the most effectual destroyer of snails, worms, and insects, on which it almost entirely subsists. A garden in which a hedgehog is kept, will, in the course of two or three nights, be entirely freed from slugs; and that enemy to fruit, the millipede, is a favorite food to him. London gardeners are so aware of this, as often to purchase hedgehogs to put in their grounds. If it ever has been found eating poultry or fame, as has by some been asserted, they must previously have been killed by rats, weasels, or some more ferocious animal than the hedgehog, whose habits are those of gentleness and timidity, who is not formed for attack, and whose sole mode of defense is rolling itself up in a ball and opposing its strong prickles to the enemy. This statement is given in the hope of rescuing a harmless and useful creature from the general abhorrence in which it is held, and the unmerciful treatment it meets with.

[edit] Image with copy

Hello, I'm searching a image for use in es:Erizo común (Hedgehog in Spanish), but I see that this image have copyright (I see in commons), any image without copy? es:User:Patxi Aguado

The German version of the article has one which is hosted from the Commons (commons:Image:Igel01.jpg) and is tagged as GFDL. (It's new! I'm going to put it here too) Others: commons:Image:Igel.JPG commons:Image:Hedgehog.jpg --Andrew 08:12, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ferret predator dispute

The article has a disclaimer that someone disputes the accuracy of the statement about ferrets being predators. In this argument, the word predator is referring to an animal that hunts and eats other animals. Simply go to the Ferret article and you can see that they are carnivorous - meaning, they eat other animals. One of the animals they have been known (in domesticated species and in New Zealand) is the hedgehog - primary large adult hedgehogs that can no longer roll into a complete ball. So, what is the dispute? The disclaimer directs people to this talk page, but there is no counter-claim. If none is made, I will remove the dispute. Kainaw 17:01, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Toxin Resistance

I'm not exactly a hedgehog aficionado, but I've heard a lot about their alleged resistance to toxins - supposedly they're capable of enduring levels of toxins that would be harmful if not fatal to humans. Is there any truth to this?

Yes, hedgehogs are highly resistant to many toxins (as are weasels and ferrets). However, they are not resistant to common pest poisons (rat poisons, bug sprays, etc). So, I do want to give the impression that you can bug-bomb a house with a hedgehog in it and the hedgehog will be fine.
I have heard from multiple sources that a heart drug was tested on hedgehogs and it was a miracle drug. It lowered cholesterol and blood pressure, increased oxygen levels, and repaired much of the fatty liver disease. When tested on rats, the medicine was fatal at very low doses.
I recently learned from a research doctor that many statins were derived from a South American's snake venom. The initial research on the venom was done on hedgehogs because they have such bad cholesterol levels. I asked if the statins turned out to be fatal and all he knew is that the initial hedgehog study was a great success, but it took another 10 years for the drugs to get to human testing. Kainaw 22:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure if we should add anything about this to the wikipedia entry without having some reliable source we can check it against.
As for toxin resistance, it is very easy to find many websites that make such a claim. It is well known that hedgehogs can easily consume many poisonous animals. I remember a study being done to derive the Anti-Toxin chemicals from opossums (which are yet another creature who is highly resistant to toxins). The problem is that most people don't know the difference between toxins and poisons. So, they assume they can spread rat poison around their yard and the hedgehogs won't be bothered. Then, when the hedgehogs turn up dead, they say that they were told the hedgehogs couldn't be poisoned.
As for the medical studies, it is next to impossible to find research on hedgehogs. The word "hedgehog" is used extensively in stem cell research and neurology (among other things). So, any article you find about medical studies and hedgehogs is most likely not about the little animal but about some cell/chemical called a hedgehog. Kainaw 20:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I found a few good sites by searching for Erinaceinae instead of hedgehog:
http://ca.expasy.org/uniprot/P54249

[edit] Sonic the Hedgehog

I think that decision to put the disputable fact that Sonic the Hedgehog is the most famous hedgehog is questionable at best. There is a whole category of fictional hedgehogs for the fans of the Sega series, and, although we may write something about the influence of hedgehogs on culture (and I believe such section should contain more than one fact), the whole idea has nothing to do with history.

There is a whole category of hedgehogs, but he's the well-known one, the one the series is named after.
...and we have a whole article about him. What's more, writing "Sonic the hedgehog is a well-known hedgehog" in a hedgehog article is not even close to Trivia. It's as if I wrote "Hedgehog appears in a well-known book "The Hare and the Hedgehog". OK, so what? What information does that fact hold? It's pretty obvious to anyone that Sonic the Hedgehog is a hedgehog, don't you think?Cyberodin
True, it's in his name, for crying out loud... --Luigifan 03:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I've strongly considered making a section listing famous fictional hedgehogs. I just haven't had the time. I don't plan to describe them in detail, just have a list of names that link to the article for the hedgehog's name. --Kainaw (talk) 13:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd even say we make a whole article about hedgehog in culture. However, to be frank, I'd rather make it a separate article and keep Hedgehog as biological as possible to keep the spirit of similar entries for different animals. Cyberodin
It wouldn't be obvious to people who have never heard of Sonic that he's a hedgehog. How much can we write on the hedgehog in culture? In any case, every page Foo where there exists a Foo in Culture page, there is a paragraph on Foo talking about Foo in Culture, right below the Main Page: Foo in Culture link.--Prosfilaes 21:35, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I've never been opposed to creating a separate article. I've personally split off separate articles on many occasions. I justify it by showing that there are at least three things that the new article can go into detail about htat are not in the main article. So far, we have only discussed Sonic. I know there is a very popular German board game about hedgehogs (called somthing like Hurry Hedgehog). The lady who makes books that are almost all artwork has had a few that focus on a hedgehog (The Hat is one of them if I remember correctly). So, a new article could be created in which there are subsections: Hedgehogs in games, hedgehogs in books, hedgehogs in film (has there been a hedgehog in any movie?). --Kainaw (talk) 21:43, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
"The lady who makes books that are almost all artwork" -- Jan Brett? Mhari 19:09, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The first time I saw Sonic I had no idea he was supposed to be a hedgehog, so it isn't necessarily obvious. Anyway, I think it's worth a mention here, he isn't necessarily the most famous (I'm the one who added that bit, but I only said "well-known", someone else must have changed it to "most famous") but he's a very popular video game character, and he is relevant to the article, being a hedgehog. But you can remove it if you want, it's not like I'll lose sleep over it. Yeltensic42.618 00:48, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Come on. He runs at high speed, rolls even faster, and lives to collect as many gold rings as possible. Isn't that what all hedgehogs do? --Kainaw (talk) 00:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

So now we remove Sonic to a culture page but leave Jan Brett and the rest of the group here? This feels like personal dislike for Sonic now.--Prosfilaes 22:00, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

It's because we hate him for being blue.
I moved the Jan Brett bit and some other bits that seemed more "culture" than "trivia". Mhari 23:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Didn't have time to remove everything yesterday, but yes, the intention was to move the whole sectionCyberodin
There should still be a short summary on the topic though then leave the rest to the main article. --Chroniclev 22:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hedgehog sex

In case anybody else was wondering how they manage to mate without killing each other, this site [1] reveals the truth: the female just makes sure the spikes lie flat.

I'm still wondering whether accidents can happen, though. After all, there's a reason the hedgehog's dilemma is refered to as such. -- Ashmodai 15:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Most animals mate rather quickly. A male hedgehog spends time safely mounting the female, but is then finished and off without much risk of any kind. --Kainaw (talk) 14:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parasites and predators

So, I have a couple of points that are recollections, but I lack sources. First, I understand that foxes will roll hedgehogs on their backs, urinate on the opening of the hedgehog ball; thus the hedgehog must unroll or suffocate. Any truth to that one?

Also, as is typical for parasites and hosts, I understand that there is a hedgehog flea, and further that when hedgehogs were brought to New Zealand, they were brought without fleas. Is there support for that one? I do remember from childhood that when hedgehogs wandered into my back garden, and I kept them, the first necessity was flea powder to remove the very abundant fleas.

Perhaps these points would be interesting in the trivia section; cheers!Dmccabe 03:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I am wondering if Hedgehogs carry ring worm or is that an old wive's tail? Do they carry any other diseases that are contagious to man or other animals such as cats and dogs? Thank you.(~ ~ ~ ~ )

The story of urinating on a rolled hedgehog most likely game from a very old Roman book by Pliny in which he exlains that a rolled hedgehog will curl into a ball and, if you roll it over to open it, will urinate on itself to ruin its pelt. As for fleas, Hedgehogs are more prone to mites, but do get fleas. They do not offer much of a home to hair-loving fleas, but skin burrowing mites have no trouble living on hedgehogs. --Kainaw (talk) 15:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Well...I've never heard of that about foxes. But I have heard that weasels will spray musk onto a rolled hedgehog to force it to unroll. But not sure if it is true. Most sources I've seen state that hedgehogs have little to fear from foxes, but badgers can easily unroll them, unharmed by spines, with their strong claws and tough skin.61.230.72.211 04:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I heard that foxes just [carefully] shove hedgehogs into puddles... --Luigifan 03:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Never heard that before. Dora Nichov 13:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I heard they drop them into water, usually a river or the edge of a lake. And that badgers bite through the spines. Madgenberyl 17:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

they don't-- sometimes hedgehogs are scared of foxes and the like, and accidentally fall into some kind of a watery grave while they're "running". 70.5.1.167 (talk) 21:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)sagethorn

[edit] Please identify this hedge hog for me

  • These photos of a Hedgehog were taken in Jaisalmer district, Rajasthan on 18 Apr 06.
  • The hedgehog was found wandering in the desert at 2200hrs. He was kept in a pot till morning, photos taken and released unharmed deep in the desert away from habitation.
  • Photo taken by User:AshLin (own work).
  • Identification is required - E collaris or micropus?
  • There are total three photos of the same hedgehog in Wikimedia.

AshLin 19:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

On the ground
On the ground
Showing his paws
Showing his paws
Showing his face
Showing his face

Photos by AshLin 19:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

That looks like a "Brandt's Hedgehog" (Hemiechinus hypomelas). They are common throughout India. Just a note: they are not domesticated at all and will bite if they feel threatened. Because you were able to pick it up easily, it may have been sick and unable to defend itself - or it may have been a rare one that likes being held. You never really know with hedgehogs. --Kainaw (talk) 20:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vagina

in the section about copulation, it refers to the female's vagina. would that not be a cloaca? ... aa:talk 03:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Correct. I will make the change - but remember, you can edit the article too. --Kainaw (talk) 14:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Wait, wait, wait. I think that "vagina" is correct; birds have cloacas, not mammals. Mammals have penises or vaginas as their gonads. The only exceptions to that are the monotremes, which do have cloacas. So, I think you somehow got the hedgehog confused with the echidna. --Luigifan 03:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


umm-- eww. what are you, hedgehog experts? ucka, i was looking this up for a report, and now i'm switching animals... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.5.1.167 (talk) 21:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Attempts to hibernate commonly fatal?

Is this vandalism? I'm removing it for the moment, because it's not cited and seems like a really odd sentence. --GenkiNeko 17:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Some domesticated hedgehogs have died while hibernating. It is rare, but not uncommon for European hedgehogs to go into hibernation and then die. Hedgehogs don't pack on the pounds (or ounces in their case) to sustain hibernation. For some reason, if it gets too cold, they will try it. I don't know why. --Kainaw (talk) 17:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Domesticated hedgehogs

"It is illegal to own a hedgehog as a pet in some U.S. states and some Canadian municipalities, and breeding licenses are required. No such restrictions exist in most European countries." I don´t know about other European countries, but in Norway you are not allowed to keep a hedgehog or any other wild animal as a pet, according to laws on wildlife protection, and I think also hygiene. I am not sure whether this includes the domesticated species or hybrids, but at least I´ve never seen a hedgehog for sale or kept captivated, and import rules for uncommon pets are rather strict, especially if they are likely to spread diseases or survive and breed in the environment if escaped from captivity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aruud (talk • contribs) 16:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Please feel free to edit the article. While I am an expert on hedgehogs, I'm no expert on hedgehog laws. If you can find a webpage reference about Norwegian pet laws, include it after your entry with the ref tag, as in: <ref>http://the.reference.website/goes/here</ref> - then it won't be reverted quickly by someone who just doesn't know Norwegian law. --Kainaw (talk) 17:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] food

Domesticated hedgehogs - Dog and cat food is bad for hedgehogs and often causes liver damage among other things. Today, many pet stores sell hedgehog mixes that are specifically formulated for hedgehogs. I'm aware milk is a problem (as mentioned in the domesticated hedgehog article tho not here) but hadn't heard about pet food. It seems to be ok as a supplement ( sttiggywinkles ) ie when left out for garden hedgehogs. Some might regard this practice as domestication (caring for) and so might find the article misleading; I'm guessing that domesticated in the article means keeping hedgehogs indoors(?) ie something rather different. Hakluyt bean 16:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Most (definately not all) dog/cat food is high in fiber and fat and low in protein. Hedgehogs are insectivores, which means that they thrive best on a diet high in fiber and protein and low in fat. Because they cannot handle the high fat content, hedgehogs who eat high fat food normally have an extremely shortened lifespan ending with cancer and fatty liver disease. It over-complicates things to say "dog food and cat food, except those that are nearly fat free and contain high amounts of protein, is bad for hedgehogs". It is much easier to make a broad claim that dog food and cat food is bad for them.
Now, why do so many books/articles/webpages claim that cat food is good for hedgehogs? Go back 20 years to the start of the current hedgehog domestication fad and people just put every type of pet food in front of the hedgehog. Cat food was preferred by the hedgehogs over dog food and bird food. So, they assumed it was good for them. By that logic, since a kid will prefer candy and ice cream to meat and vegetables, candy and ice cream must be good for them. It wasn't until the late 90s that a lot of research was done into what foods keep them the most healthy. It is not possible to eradicate previous books about keeping hedgehogs as pets, so you will continue to find old literature that claims cat food is good for them and new literature that pushes insectivore food. --Kainaw (talk) 17:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I think maybe the issue goes to a difference between keeping indoor hedgehogs and helping along garden hedgehogs. The latter is more the practice in the British Isles, in which context pet food is an ok supplement, as current literature states. It's therefore confusing for people to read that pet food is straightforwardly bad. The consequence of that advice would be less incentive to help garden hedgehogs, and that would be unfortunate.
Most people are aware that hedgehogs are basically insect eaters. However, many householders put out a saucer of meat based pet food for their garden friends. The hedgehog will treat this as a welcome supplement to its normal diet and will not go hungry if, for some reason, the food is not put out. BHPS
Once eating, a suitable diet can consist of meat based pet food (not in gravy), cooked chicken (excluding bones), minced beef or lamb, a little bran or unsweetened moistened muesli cereal and added vitamins – like SA37. Other snacks enjoyed are banana, raisins, unsweetened crushed digestive biscuits and dry cat or hedgehog biscuits
The advice given on this site is intended for wild European hedgehogs (Erinaceus europaeus) only. BHPS :: I just think it might be a useful distinction for the article to make(?) Hakluyt bean 14:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

but you can own a hedgehog in Quebec!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.5.1.167 (talk) 21:18, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Size

There is no mention of the size of these animals in the article at all. I had thought that they were about the size of mice, but from the picture of Brandt's Hedgehog on this page I see that some species, at least, can be rather larger. I think that the absense of information regarding their size is an omission that needs to be rectified. Hi There 09:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

So find the information, add it, and cite it. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Size varies greatly with the species. Pygmy hedgehogs are 4-6 inches. European hedgehogs are larger, rarely getting past 10 inches. The desert hedgehogs are normally small, but get large in captivity. All in all, they are size relative to rats much more than mice. --Kainaw (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just thought I'd mention...

I've changed part of the introductory statement that used to read as follows:

"There are no hedgehogs native to Australia, and no living species native to North America"

It now reads:

"There are no hedgehogs native to Australia, and no living species native to North America"

I changed it because there Erinaceidae is known from North America, including Litolestes, Ocajila, Parvericius and Proterix (among others). 71.217.98.158 04:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Northern White-Breasted Hedgehog

I'm curious why we have a new species here. I'm yet to see it in a biology literature Cyberodin

It's listed in Mammal Species of the World, 3rd ed, pg 214. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I love hedgehogs!!!  : ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BJeUiLnIcAh (talk • contribs) 20:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mating behaviors

From the section on reproduction and lifespan:

"...and the female has the ability to curl her tail upward to the point that her cloaca protrudes behind the rest of her body."

Now, I don't know much about eutherian anatomy, but I do know that this statement is anatomically incorrect. Monotremes are the only mammals that have cloacas. Somebody who actually knows about eutherian anatomy might want to edit it. 71.217.98.158 22:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I can find no reference that monotremes are the absolute only mammals to have clocacas. What I find is that marsupials, hedgehogs, and tenrecs also have cloacas. What I have seen is reference to hedgehog and tenerec "cloacal-like vaginal opening". I assume that means that the vagina is like a cloaca, but they don't want to call it one for some unmentioned reason. Perhaps because of the belief that only monotremes and marsupials have cloacas. --Kainaw (talk) 03:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New image

I replaced the hedgehog out at night image with my own since I felt it was higher quality. But I have no idea what kind of hedgehog the picture is of, so if it should be in a species-specific section or should be renamed with a less crummy generic filename that would be terrific. TygerTyger 09:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like your average European Hedgehog to me. --Kainaw (talk) 17:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

http://www.ling.rochester.edu/people/cross/hedgehog.html has some interesting information about the etymology of "hedgehog" but also the names of hedgehogs in other languages. The Middle English "heyg hoge" replaced the Old English/Germanic "igil", which derived from the Proto-Indo-European "eg'hi" - which is also the root for Russian "jozh", Polish "jezh", Greek "ekhinos" (and hence related to the scientific name), Ossirian "wzin", Armenian "ozni", Phrygian "ezis", Lithuanian "ezhys" and Latvian "ezis". In some languages, the name for "bristle" is derived from this e.g. Czech "jezhina". Not sure how much of this belongs on Wikipedia as opposed to Wikitionary but it's not without interest. 172.143.52.186 19:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Culinary Use

The hedgehog is then removed and the clay cracked open, taking the spikes of the hedgehog with it, a practice that a common urban myth claims is widespread among gypsies.

It's not an urban myth, although its something may have died out now. When my father was about 14 or 15 years old, which was in the 1930s, he had a meal of hedgehog cooked as described above with a family of gypsies, and they told him that it was something they, and their family often ate. So it may have died out nowadays, but it certainly was a gypsy practise at that time. SimonUK 10:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

To remove the "urban myth" comment, we must find documentation that demonstrates it was a common practice. So far, nobody has come up with any sort of documentary on gypsy cuisine. -- Kainaw(what?) 14:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Try this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2168860,00.html Mentions studies by University of Wales stating that hedgehogs are well known to have been used as food. I told you it wasn't a myth. SimonUK (talk) 16:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

SO?? Come on then. Admit you were wrong!!! Youve got your precious bloody reference. What the fuck else do you want? Pictures of a bloody gypsy eating one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.75.118 (talk • contribs)

Who was wrong about what? You are certainly very angry about something, but it is very unclear what has upset you to the point of verbalizing like a little child. -- kainaw™ 01:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Kainaw wrote in an edit summary:

(→Culinary use: Imitation hedgehogs are not culinary use of hedgehogs. You can make anything in the shape of a hedgehog - it doesn't make it a hedgehog.)
OK - true enough, but what about the hedgehog crisps bit that was already there? Mock-Hedgehog meatloaf, which dates back to the 14th century, is at least as important a culinary "use" as the alleged hedgehog crisps. MattHucke(t) 17:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with the hedgehog crisps, but the argument can be made that they are attempting to be "hedgehog flavored." I feel that is pushing the definition of "culinary use of hedgehogs" as far as possible. If we start adding anything that can possibly be shaped like a hedgehog, we'll be in for a monolith article containing hedgehog shaped meatloaf, hedgehog shaped cookies, hedgehog shaped chocolates, hedgehog shaped cakes... What's next? A cat dropped a poop that looked like a hedgehog and a dog ate it - so we add that to hedgehog cuisine? -- kainaw™ 17:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The hedgehog meatloaf isn't something I just made up... it was mentioned in medieval cookery books, and featured on episode 1x02 of Two Fat Ladies. That's notable, I think. MattHucke(t) 18:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
(aside note: thanks for discussing this, rather than blindly reverting with a machine-generated comment. Though we disagree, I appreciate being treated like a human being and not a vandal). MattHucke(t) 18:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I've found the source. "The Forme of Cury, A Roll of Ancient English Cookery, Compiled, about A.D. 1390, by the Master-Cooks of King Richard II, Presented afterwards to Queen Elizabeth, by Edward Lord Stafford", contains a recipe for sausages "made after an urchoun [i.e., hedgehog] withoute legges" with "smale prikkes of gode past [pastry]".

http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Forme-of-Cury2.html MattHucke(t) 18:22, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest taking the hedgehog crisps section out and rewording it to something similar to: "There are many foods and recipes related to the hedgehog that do not in any way include hedgehogs as an ingredient, such as hedgehog crisps and hedgehog meatloaf." Of course, refs will follow and we will be in for it as editors feel the need to add every hedgehog-related food item that they can think of to the list. To see this in action, see something like string squeak. There was a sentence claiming that it is noticeable in some songs, giving a couple examples. Then, another example was added. Then it became a list. Then another example and another example. It won't be long before the article is not longer about "string squeak," It will be "a list of songs containing guitar squeak." I would prefer that this article didn't become "a list of foods that look or taste like hedgehogs." -- kainaw™ 19:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd be happy with moving both the Crisps and Meatloaf to Hedgehogs in culture, with a pointer to it from the Culinary section here. (I've already put the meatloaf text and photo and reference in that article). 99.150.58.47 (talk) 19:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Malawi Hedgehog

When I lived in Blantyre, Malawi, there was a tiny hedgehog around the office that I believe was called a "chisoni" in Chichewa.

This thing was very small (it would fit nicely in your cupped hand), not much bigger than a mouse. It was unclear if this was a small species of hedgehog or if it was just not yet adult. (It disappeared one day, so I assume somebody took it home and ate it.)

Malawi was not listed on the habitat list for the Southern African hedgehog, so I don't know if this would be the same type or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.105.146 (talk) 16:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wobbly hedgehog syndrome

I don't why this has repeatedly happened, but the word "domesticated" is keeps getting removed from the comment that "wobbly hedgehog syndrome is common in domesticated hedgehogs." Then, someone comes along and correctly notes that WHS is not common in hedgehogs in general. Why is the word "domesticated" being removed? WHS is almost entirely limited to domesticated hedgehogs - specifically the African Pygmy ones bred in the United States. I don't know of a single non-domesticated hedgehog ever having WHS. -- kainaw™ 14:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)