Talk:Heaven (nightclub)/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Picture 2 Move 3 Removed Tags 4 Vandalism 5 buyout 6 Closure / Future Direction section deleted

Picture

The picture is above the text, not in a box, and positioned on the left, at least for me. If someone could change this it would make the article look a lot better. A better picture of the Doors would also be better but isnt necessary. LordFenix 21:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Move

Heaven (nightclub) is more consistent with Wikipedia naming conventions, and already has a link on the Heaven dab page. Unless the official name of the business is verifiably "Heaven nightclub" verbatim, I think it should be moved. - Draeco 06:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 08:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

{{advert}} The phrase contains many pejorative terms and is very unencylopedic. Do wikipedians really want to hear the author's comments that heaven continues with its "legendary sound"?

{{peacock}} Do wikipedians want to hear about where a relatively unkown DJ has emigrated to? Is this important to the main article. If the author finds it that important that "wayne G" is mentined in such detail, should he not create an article on him?

And the audacity of the DJs section. It says something along the lines of a DJ leaving Heaven and going to a "hithero unknown club". That section reads like the rantings of a disgruntled employee if ever I heard it. There are an estimated 400,000 gay men in London, did all of them go to this club? This section is in urgent need of revision / deletion

The VIP lounge Does this part of the article "out" famous people? How important is it to state the price of membership? Surely a simple link to the website would be enough? It reads like an advert

'Too many red links' Wikipedia is not intended to be a directory of every living person in the world. Subsequent edits of this page even provide links for employees of the club. They are no more relavent to Wikipedians than regional managers of K-mart

Removed Tags

Hi, I have partially wikified the article and removed the tags. 80.189.6.186 14:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Someone (probably heaven staff) keep removing edits that they call 'vandalism'. This is not the case. Wikipedia is a democratic encyclopedia and just because a staff member doesn't agree with what is written that does not mean the remarks/opinions should be taken down. Trying to paint an all roses picture of this club as some sort of 'shrine' to the gay community is pretty pathetic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.249.51 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 18 May 2007

For your information I do not work for Heaven. Neither am I a Yardie gangster drug dealer, for that matter. I keep removing your comments because they are libellous, unsourced and - from my own experience - far from true. As a semi-regular vistor to the club, I don't recognise the picture you paint, and neither do my regular clubbing partners. Of course, "opinions" are not what Wikipedia is about, but rather facts are. If you can find a reliable source that corroborates your claims, then you are free to cite it, although I suspect you'll have a hard time finding one. Nick Cooper 09:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

this page has been locked to prevent the truth about heaven being told. heaven staff control this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.250.52 (talk • contribs) 14:06, 16 June 2007

This page has been locked to prevent the libellous vandalism. If you think only someone employed by the club would want to prevent that, then you're clearly paranoid. Nick Cooper 20:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

None of the edits in question were verifiable, and do not belong in an encyclopedia which places the utmost importance on accuracy. Even if these edits were effectively true, this does not merit inclusion in Wikipedia because it is original research, and verifiability is what matters to Wikipedia, not mere truth.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 11:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

buyout

The buyout isn't disputed. If evidence to the contrary has been presented, then it should be cited also. Wikipedia is a democratic encyclopedia. Information that is not substantiated should not be posted here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepsibot (talk Pepsibot 18:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)• contribs) 18:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Asked for protection of this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepsibot (talk • contribs) 18:50, 24 September 2007

Which inevitably failed. There is no evidence whatsoever that this buyout has taken place beyond unsubstatiated rumours on G-A-Y's discussion forum. There is nothing on the G-A-Y website proper, nothing on Heaven's website, nothing on Mean Fiddler's website, and nothing on MAMA Group plc's, either. The latter does detail their buyout of Mean Fiddler, so one would expect that they would be just as keen to publicise this supposed acquisition, as well. In any case, the lease on the Astoria doesn't run out until the end of 2008, so there is zero incentive for G-A-Y to move anywhere before the end of this year. Nick Cooper 07:42, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Nick Cooper, please can you explain your link to heaven, or why you think yourself particularly knowledgable on this matter. it's almost as though you're personally inovlved? Are you Heaven staff? Nanoc22 15:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

LOL! It would be more pertinent to ask exactly what your interest and/or "inside knowledge" is. There is nothing on the websites of any of the involved parties to support this claim of a buyout. I would note that you added the claim that, "G-A-Y will now be held at Heaven starting November 29th 2007," while the G-A-Y website has that date and the following day down as the G-A-Y Awards, with no mention whatsoever of the Heaven venue. The second day (i.e. Fri 30 Nov) is still down as the promoted night Peach at Heaven, which also has dates booked at that venue running into January 2008. As is confirmed here, the lease on the Astoria does not expire until December 2008, so the idea that they have bought out another venue (even if it was available) a year early is staggeringly unconvincing.

I would also note that the metadata of the supposed G-A-Y style Heaven "logo" you have uploaded includes: "Adobe Photoshop CS2 Windows 2007:09:28 10:10:17". In other words, it was created only a few hours before you uploaded it, and yet it is a logo that (naturally) does not appear on the Heaven website. Where exactly did you obtain it? Nick Cooper 17:06, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Ahem. Let's all assume good faith here and cease any accusations and stick to building a better article. Benjiboi 19:58, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

"Heaven was bought by MAMA group Plc in November 2007 and will close down in mid-December. It is thought it will re-open as G-A-Y" has been rightly removed; please provide a reliable source asserting any facts of the issue so that others can also confirm these events. Wikipedia is not a tabloid and not a newspaper, we need to get it right so if we have to wait a day until someone else publishes a story then so be it. Benjiboi 20:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This nick cooper fancies himself as some sort of cyber security guard when it comes to gay venues in london and his precious nerdy 'editing' (ie, removing anything he doesn't agree with'. Some people need to get a life away from their computers and chill out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.24.158 (talk) 13:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

While your obsession with repeatedly posting libellous comments about both venues is perfectly normal.... Nick Cooper (talk) 17:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Mate, you might not like it, but it's happened. It's nice that you're so concerned about a company you don't even work for nor seem to have any dealings with but if you're so concerned about unfounded comments, maybe you should look at some of the other pages on wikipedia and stop trying to be a "cybercop", removing other people's comments because they don't agree with your personal beliefs. And since when was documentary proof needed for any article on wikipedia. It's not like it's something scandalous, it's a normal business transaction. Nanoc22 (talk) 16:12, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Any editor can challenge and removed unsourced content. The standard on wikipedia is verifiability not truth. Edit warring and personal attacks from either side will not be tolerated. Find a reliable source that documents the content you wish to add and your issue will be addressed. Benjiboi 17:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It is not a question of liking or not liking anything. The bottom line is that there has been no official announcement which corroborates the edits you have made, either by Pure Group or MAMA Group. Heaven is still showing as a managed venue on the website of the former, and there is no mention of Heaven anywhere on the website of the latter. The fact that you have couched your addition in terms of, "It is thought it will re-open..." suggests that even you don't really know, anyway. None of us are in a position to second-guess what is going on, so until such time as something official is announced, the gossip has no place here. Wikipedia is a place for verifiable facts, not "comments," despite what you think. Nick Cooper (talk) 17:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Heaven has already announced a closing party to be held on the 8th of December and has distritbuted flyers to that effect. It's true that you need to be able to verify facts, but you should be able to verify the continuation of a status quo, as well as the departure one, from surely?

There are already facebook groups bidding farewell to heaven as well as goodbye parties being held. If there is such an interest surely that does have a place on here, even if it is phrased in the terms "A closing party has been announced on the 8th of December, rumours have circulated that MAMA group have bought the venue.".

You're going to look like a bit of a lemming in the next couple of weeks if you don't soften your resolve mate. Nanoc22 (talk) 18:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Lemming or not wikipedia is not a blog, facebook, a newspaper, gossip sheet, or tabloid. This is an encyclopedia and what is printed here should be true as well as verifiable. If they are indeed closing or merging then someone else will write about it in a reliable source which we can then cover. No one is damaged if we report they have closed after the fact. Encyclopedia need not speculate nor are expected to be reporting news as it happens. Benjiboi 18:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

A "closing party" has been announced on Facebook (where, of course, anyone can do that), and yet the Heaven website has no mention of it, and there were certainly no flyers in evidence when I was there at the weekend. It is known that something is happening at Heaven, but nothing has been officially announced as to it being a buyout, a revamp, a market repositioning, or whatever. That people are filling in this void with what is essentially speculation is all that we know, and that is not good enough for Wikipedia. Nick Cooper (talk) 22:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Nick cooper is heaven staff and is obsessed with this page and his jealous nazi like censorship! The dude needs to chill out he is very uptight about anyone else writing on this page. A bit too sensitive for the liking he should hide his employment at heaven nightclub a bit better! You are busted dude...BIG time! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.181.116 (talk • contribs) 01:38, 16 December 2007

Well, given that I do not and never have worked for Heaven (or Pure Group, for that matter), your continued false claims that I do says more about where you're coming from than where I am. Nick Cooper (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Closure / Future Direction section deleted

"Heaven has announced a closing party called "demolition" to be held on the 8th of December 2007. There has been much speculation about the future, including becomming the new venue hosting G-A-Y who's current premises are facing imminent closure due to crossrail." I've removed this as I've found nothing to support any claims and indeed the venue seems to be blissfully unaware they are closing down. Benjiboi 18:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC) FYI. Here is a link for MAMA group which also fails to mention anything about Heaven closing. Benjiboi 18:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Just accept that we know more than you and deal with it! get a life! GAY is closing and heaven has no customers due to their gangster admittance policy (ie, letting them in to take the club over)...get with the plot dude —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.181.116 (talk) 01:38, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm continually amazed at how little i do indeed know, luckily for me wikipedia exists and luckily for all of us wikipedia has rules governing what we can publish here. You certainly may be right but the test on this encyclopedia is verifiability not truth. Benjiboi 17:36, 16 December 2007 (UTC)