Talk:Heart (band)

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Heart (band) article.
Article policies

Contents

[edit] POV edits

I changed "most successful" to "one of the most successful" because the point is debatable. Fleetwood Mac, for example, is another female fronted rock band that sold 18 million copies of one album (Rumors). Ok, so Fleetwood Mac is not really hard rock, but then neither is Heart. --LeeHunter 02:05, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You should hear Fleetwood Mac before they got Stevie Nicks. They're much heavier. Also, some of Heart's songs are heavier but Fleetwood Mac with Stevie Nicks is never heavy... Redwolf24 06:04, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Early Band Members

I'm looking to find Jim Hill and his involvement with the band in the early stages. Anyone with information please post it.

[edit] Albums

I finally decided to make pages for all the albums. Enjoy! Weatherman90 17:54, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Couple questions about the main page

1) Why is there a link to Bands from Canada? Wilson's are from California and Heart is known for the whole Seattle connection.

Not to dig up dirt...

2) I found it odd there is no mention of Nancy's relationship with the guitarist.

3) On a similair line, didn't the label go to quite a bit of work to hide Ann's weight gain in the 80s? Sabalon (talk • contribs) 20:21 11 September 2006 (UTC).

As for 1), Heart was based in Canada (Vancouver) for several years, due to the military draft [1] and had their initial success through a Canadian label (Mushroom) - therefore they are considered partially a Canadian band; the statements in 2) and 3) require sources (see WP:V). Dl2000 23:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I SAW ON A YOUTUBE VID ONE OF THEIR CONCERTS ANN WILSON SAYS THAT 'THER'RE FROM CANADA'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvr3dmptvg

[edit] Low Profile addition

I was not sure exactly how to state the change that I made but here I go. I added that the song Crazy On You is in Guitar Hero 2. I linked the word Guitar Hero 2 to that games article as a way of confirming that this is true. If any further confirmation is needed it should be found on the Guitar Hero 2 Article. Thank You for your time.Bengaska 01:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bad timing

Ann & Nancy joined 1974, the band moved to Canada. What year? (And in 1974, how much risk was there of getting sent to Vietnam? Really?) Trekphiler 03:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

  • It wasn't about being sent to Vietnam -- it's that Roger and Mike Fisher had already dodged the draft and were on the run from U.S. authorities. Canada was a safe haven for draft dodgers prior to Jimmy Carter giving them amnesty in January 1977.

[edit] WTF????

"In addition to being a savvy business man, Kimball is also rumored to be known as the "best looking VC guy on Union Street". This has yet to be confirmed and is contradictory to unnamed sources familiar with Kimball." can someone please explain to me how this has any revelation to Heart? if not then someone should just put the information on his page and create a link ( i dont know how myself) Curefreak (talk • contribs) 20:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Controversy section

I added a "controversy" section discussing their infamous lesbian lovers-rumor as well as an early rumor of the sisters being occult followers. User:67.182.31.229 (Talk) 02:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I took a stab at tightening up the section, and removed the tags. RomaC 10:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genre(s)?

I see that
Genre = [ [ Hard rock ] ], [ [ Rock (music) | Rock ] ], [ [ Pop rock ] ], [ [ Arena rock ] ]
has been changed to
Genre = [ [ Hard rock ] ] < br > [ [ Rock music | Rock ] ]
without any explanation.

Can anyone provide a definitive reference, (or failing that, a plausable explanation), of which genre(s) is/are appropriate?

Thanks in advance, Pdfpdf 05:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

pop rock should be(and will be)rplaced with heavy metal 67.225.25.37 (talk) 05:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Highly amusing (for about 20 seconds). Reverted. Pdfpdf (talk) 07:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Genre(s) again

We seem to be going through another round of "let's change the genre".

Can anyone provide a definitive reference, (or failing that, a plausable explanation), of which genre(s) is/are appropriate?

Then, next time we have another round, we can say "rv - see talk page"

Candidates seem to be:

  • hard rock - there seems to be general consensus on this one.
  • rock (music) - is a redirect to "rock music"
  • rock music - latest editor says: "Dudes, please, don't place Rock since it's too general!" - seems like a reasonable request to me. However, Anger22 provides a compelling argument below.
  • arena rock - in an earlier round of "discussion", it was concluded that "arena rock" is not a genre; Anger22 provides an explanation below.
  • heavy metal - not a serious contender!!
  • folk rock - seems appropriate to me for some of the 1970s stuff.
  • pop rock - seems appropriate to me.
  • glam metal - maybe? Maybe not! "Heart aren't "glam" anything. Hard rock with big hair is still just hard rock."
  • glam rock - ditto

Opinions please. Pdfpdf (talk) 04:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

"Opinions" have no place on Wikipedia but here is a comment anyways :). The rule of the template is aim for generality.
Folk rock
If they 'touched' on a genre like folk rock then it doesn't really apply. Anger22
Sorry, I don't understand. First, they've more than "'touched' on" folk rock, and even if they had, why is it that "it doesn't really apply"? Pdfpdf
Arena rock
Arena rock is not a music genre it is simply a term describing bands (usually hard rock bands) playing their chosen form in an arena. Anger22
Thanks for the clarification - I couldn't find the reference I was after. Pdfpdf
Please, Arena Rock sounds really like a unique subgenre. It doesn't matter where you play it. It's just the really big drum-banging, loud voices, slow tempo! See, Arena Rock is a sub-genre. 121.97.138.6
Mmmmm. You have a point. Arena rock says: "Arena rock, also called stadium rock or anthem rock, is a loosely-defined term describing an era of rock music.", and later says: "Arena rock's popularity peaked in the '80s. Along with the creators of the genre, other bands such as Heart, ... " Pdfpdf
Anger22, the article seems to disagree with you. Pdfpdf (talk) 14:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Does it? I think it supports. Arena rock is a "loosely defined 'term describing an era". And the template field is prompting for a "genre". There is no reference to it being a genre anywhere on the page. The template field is not for "loosely defined terms". That's why you never see British Invasion in the infobox. It's the same thing. (and if you do see British Invasion in an infobox for petes sake delete it. It just makes Wikipedia look dumb) I would also point out the Wikipedia can never be used as a reference for itself in any debate and can never be used as a citation for content. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 14:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
There is no reference to it being a genre anywhere on the page.
Pardon? I actually quoted one reference above! Perhaps you could have another look at the article? (We are talking about the same article, aren't we?) Meanwhile, what support do you have for your assertion that it isn't a genre? So far your assertion can only be classed as POV. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
(BTW: I don't care one way or the other what gets put there, as long as it's not absurd. I'm just a little tired of these periodic bouts of "let's change the genre", and would like to settle the matter. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC))
if you do see British Invasion in an infobox for petes sake delete it - OK. Will do. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't see what you were referring to but I see it now buried in the end of your post quote. Thanks for pointing out the error on the original page. I have corrected it. There is all kinds of discussion on several "term" pages that used to be incorrectly lumped as genres. All of these terms have been removed from genre lists n such and most have had any categories deleted that in some way made the reader think that the term meant some sort of distinct musical style or format. Like the previously mentioned British Invasion another one that pops to mind is "New Wave of British Heavy Metal". Again, a "term decrribing an era" and not an actual genre. "Classic rock" is another "classic" example. It is a radio format that frequently gets added incorrectly as a genre. Hope that helps. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 15:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. Pdfpdf (talk) 16:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, here are songs of Arena Rock. If you listen closely, they sound really different from other genres,

"Sweet Victory" by David Glenn Eisley (yeah, that song from SpongeBob) "Total Eclipse of the Heart" by Bonnie Tyler "WE Will Rock You" by Queen

Please, please listen. It really sounds like a unique genre!

Rock is the "parent" genre
Rock is the "parent" genre and really the only true "genre" listed. The rest being just "styles" of rock. Rock should be included in all musician infoboxes where applicable and should always come first(as the parent genre) Some consider pop rock to be an insult because they equate it to bubblegum rock. Pop rock, when done right, is actually an artform, just look at The Who, The Beatles, The Kinks, Elton John etc. Heart performing pop rock is very suitable since they are very good at it. Anger22
Again, thank you. Pdfpdf
I don't agree with you... That's why Folk Rock, Arena Rock are called Sub-Genres! .Whatever Main Genre there is.... there is always a sub-genre! Just like Hardcore punk is a subgenre of punk! That's why sub-genres help classify what type of rock this is. Example- You call an extreme metal band just "rock". That's really too GENERAL!. 121.97.138.6
121.97.138.6, I don't understand your problem. It's not as though Anger22 is saying "Rock" is the ONLY thing to put there. It's just the "parent"; the sub-genres clarify the parent. Why is this a problem? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
The problem is that he says that we should place Rock on every Rock musician. I don't think this should be. I mean placing just "rock" is for Children's Almanacs.... Let's keep it to being encyclopediaish....
Glam
And Heart aren't "glam" anything. Hard rock with big hair is still just hard rock. Anger22
Lol!! (Well, that answers that question! ;-) Pdfpdf
Summary
Rock, Hard rock, Pop rock aims and obtains "generality" and still covers the band's career. Anything else is just superfluity. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 12:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

OK! So the list now seems to be:

Any other opinions? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Updated. Pdfpdf (talk) 14:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Updated again. Pdfpdf (talk) 16:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Voting Wheter to place Arena Rock

Please place Agree or Disgaree if you wish to place Arena Rock as a genre...

Agree If you listen to these songs. They really sound like a unique Genre. It's all about the loud drum banging, slow tempo, loud voices thing... Please vote agree!!! "Sweet Victory" by David Glenn Eisley (yeah, that song from SpongeBob) "Total Eclipse of the Heart" by Bonnie Tyler "WE Will Rock You" by Queen

Wikipedia doesn't have votes. Read WP:VOTE. And the premise of your vote is to add a "term" to a field that doesn't allow "terms". So don't waste your time dude. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not Heavy Metal

I do not think that this band will ever be heavy metal. 121.97.138.6 (talk)

Agreed!!! Pdfpdf (talk)

But, how about Glam Metal? 121.97.138.6 (talk) 08:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe. How about Glam Rock? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:20, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please Don't Put Rock

OMG! There is so many types of rock! What type of Rock do you mean? Punk Rock? Funk Rock?
Dudes, there are so many types of rock! 121.97.106.87 (talk) 13:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes there are many types of rock music. Including rock music itself. Bruce Springsteen is a good example. Not hard rock, not soft rock, not punk rock, not funk rock... just rock. And a large bulk of the Heart catalog falls into this category. Are you sure you understand the genre? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 14:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Dude, you sound like you treat me as a dumbass... Ok, I don't agree on just "rock". But, since so many people are soooo unsure on what genre is Heart, let's just keep it to "rock". 121.97.106.87 (talk) 23:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hard Rock speaks for itself

I think you don't have to place just "rock" anymore. The other genres help classify what type of rock Heart is. 121.97.106.87 (talk) 23:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Glam

[edit] Glam Metal

Pop Metal- also known as Glam Metal!- if you won't place Heavy, maybe Glam a.k.a. Pop Metal The song called "Alone" is the closest song to Glam Metal... 121.97.138.6

Alone is a rock song plain and simple. How is it close to glam metal? Do you know what glam metal is? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 14:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know what Glam is. Anyway, I conclude that we just cancel Heart's glam metal thing... But we need to cancel out the just "rock" 121.97.106.87 (talk) 23:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Deleting content is vandalism and can get you blocked dude. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not deleting anything... until we get to solve this "rock" problem thing... 121.97.106.87 (talk) 23:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

the only problem would be deleting it. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Glam Rock

Or, how about Glam Rock? They came from early 70's and had that Glam Rock Look 121.97.138.6

I come from the 50s and can remember the 70s very well. How did they look glam? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 14:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not Glam Metal or Glam Rock

Ok, my opinion a while ago was to place Glam metal or Glam Rock.
Please cancel....
They can't Glam Rock
1. They didn't start out in the early 70s. 121.97.106.87 (talk)

[edit] Consensus?

So does this mean we have consensus on:

Pdfpdf (talk) 10:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

That's what was there before and it was fine. Anything else is superfluity. Anything less paints an inaccurate picture. And Wikipedia is already abundant with inaccuracies. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 11:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heavy Metal Argument

For those who state they were never heavy metal, I would strongly suggest you listen to songs from their 1985 Heart album such as If Looks Could Kill, Shell Shock and The Wolf. Those scream eighties metal. 67.182.31.229 (talk) 03:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Years active?

Can anyone point me at a definition for "Years active"?

Depending on the definition, I could argue that Heart became active in 1974, 1975 or 1976:

  • 1974 - "White Heart" changed its name to "Heart"
  • 1975 - "Heart" signed with "Mushroom Records"
  • 1975 or 1976 - "Dreamboat Annie" recorded. (I haven't been able to determine exactly when.)
  • 1975 or 1976 - "Dreamboat Annie" released in Canada. (I haven't been able to determine exactly when.)
  • 1976 - "Dreamboat Annie" released in the U.S.

Thanks in advance, Pdfpdf 05:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

I hope nobody minds my removal of the little nest of flags this article had in the infobox. WP:FLAG is a fairly well-developed essay which explains why using flags like this is a bad idea. --John 22:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question - "the greatest band of all time"

ok since you didnt ask a question about the main page, I guess it would be ok if i just ask a simple question, or actually ask for some advice. I'm writing this thesis statement paper on why Heart is the greatest band of all time. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on just how i can convert the reader to thinking that Heart is the greatest band of all time. 169.204.182.215 (talk) 18:52, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

You can't - you'll never be able to convince anyone that Heart are greater than The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, U2 or any of a dozen other "great bands". Although in my biassed opinion they are a great band, you could never class them as "the greatest band of all time". Pdfpdf 01:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, Heart trumps U2, The Beatles, and (on most occasions) The Stones. Anyway, To help (unless it's too late), just use subtle bias. Not too upfront on the subject, but just enough to convey your point without saying you are crazy and obssessive.-TheChrisParker (talk) 21:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
You can listen to Bebe Le Strange and still think they're the greatest band of all time.? Don't even get me started on Desire Walks On or Jupiter's Darling... Hondo77 17:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Heartalbum.PNG

Image:Heartalbum.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use.

FYI - album covers are only fair-use in the articles specific to the source of the album cover itself. In other words... the Dreamboat Annie album cover can only be used in the Dreamboat Annie article and no where else. See WP:FAIR for more details. 156.34.217.48 02:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)