Talk:Havasupai

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Havasupai article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of multiple WikiProjects. Click [show] for further details

WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America This article is part of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, which collaborates on Native American, First Nations, Inuit, Métis and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. Suggested article edit guidelines: To help us prioritise our workload, and in readiness for Wikipedia:1.0, we need to assess our articles for Quality. If this article is Unassessed, please assess it. See the Article Classification for instructions. If you disagree with a rating, you can change it or discuss it at Article Classification. Before assessing this article, be sure to check the existing Archive of assessments made under the previous system (used until July 2006), and feel free to help in migrating the existing comments besides from adding your own evaluation. After assessing this article's quality, please make sure it to add it to the Lists at Article Classification, following the grading scheme detailed there. View comments (edit) Some content but really only a stub; needs full expansion and separation of people/language articles --Skookum1 (date unknown) The section on the tribal documentary is simply horrible. From what I can see the article is in worse shape now than when it was previously reviewed... --Miskwito 02:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC) I graded this as B-Class. It needs more references and in-line citations, and a culture section. I will try to add those and then I will change the grade to A-Class. Then I will do a request for peer-review, and then on to the good-article and fa-class. Gonzo fan2007 talk ♦ contribs 23:06, 15 July 2007 (UTC) WikiProject Arizona (Rated B-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Arizona, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Arizona. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as B-importance on the importance scale. WikiProject Backpacking     (Rated B-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Backpacking, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to backpacking. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. WikiProject Hiking Trails     (Rated B-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Hiking Trails, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to hiking trails. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Havasupai has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

To-do list for Havasupai:	edit · history · watch · refresh
Gather sources and place in-line citations in the article. Create "History" section. Create "Culture" sub-section under "The Tribe" section. Create "Government" sub-section under "The Tribe" section. Add geographic coordinates. Add a map. Expand info on the tribe themselves. Add info on Havasu Canyon Route (below Mooney Falls to the river). Add info on the 3 other trails that can be used to access Havasupai. Maybe a section on the indigenous religion, if proper sources can be found. Move photos to the Commons and add link to Commons category.
Priority 4

Contents 1 Needs Expansion 2 I completely redid this whole page 3 Deletion of sentence 4 most remote city

[edit] Needs Expansion

The article needs major expansion and revision, for more comprehensive coverage and a more neutral tone.

For now, I've changed the name to "Havasupai," to match established usage, both popular and scholarly, also used by the tribe itself and by the government. To say that the name is a "mispronunciation" is like saying that the English word "French" is a mispronunciation of "Français" or that "Spain" is a mispronunciation of "España". In the English-language Wikipedia, the article on Spain is properly titled "Spain," and the article on the Havasupai properly should have that title. When and if the generally accepted convention becomes "Havasu 'Baaja," then of course Wikipedia should change to that.

The speech of the Havasupai is recognized (for instance, in the Handbook of North American Indians) as a dialect of Upland Yuman, not an independent language.

The snide reference to "voice-over talent" has been changed, for a more neutral encyclopedic tone. RhymeNotStutter 16:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I completely redid this whole page

As a lover of Havasupai I almost threw up when I saw this page. This is my first real creation of a page. If there are any mistakes or if you think you can format it better, have fun. I just think this is a little more informative and looks better. I am an expert on Havasupai, having been down over 15 times and having lead group of over 50. feel free to message me if you have any suggstions or concerns.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 07:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I also think that this article should become an umbrella article over the whole Havasupai tribe and the stub titled Havasupai language should be merged into the Havasupai article. I also think that the article titled Waterfalls of the Havasupai Indian Reservation should either be deleted or "merged" with the Havasupai article since the Waterfalls of the Havasupai Indian Reservation is repetitive and it is not that good looking. Josh Matthews 07:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I redirected Waterfalls of the Havasupai Indian Reservation to this page, as the previous one is totally repetitive and in bad form.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 14:41, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Gonzo fan2007 -- you've done a lot of work here and the article is definitely improved. However, I have a couple of quibbles. First, nearly all references I've seen indicate that it's Havasu Falls, not Havasupai Falls. Second, your edits and subsequent elimination of the separate Waterfalls of... article has resulted in two images of Havasu Falls being eliminated, one of which is a featured picture here. Now obviously I'm a bit biased as I was the photographer on both of them, but ignoring aesthetic considerations, they were objectively higher resolution and were produced with better equipment. At the very least, the pic that was promoted as a featured picture in part because it was such a good illustration of Havasu Falls should be restored to the article. This is the featured picture: "Picture #1" "Picture #2"

-- Moondigger 23:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah really sorry about that. I made the Havasu_Falls_1a_md.jpg as the top photo in the infobox, and put the other pic in the Photos section. They are definitely good pictures and again I am sorry about that.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 14:41, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

All in all it's not a big deal. I didn't want to just change it back if you had some particular line of reasoning that led you to change them, which is why I brought it up here. You might want to look into the Wiki licensing requirements w/r/t the Ken Baldwin pics, though. If you have any questions about Wiki-required licensing, I'll be happy to answer them. BTW, I do want to reiterate that I think you've improved the article content immensely with all your work on it. -- Moondigger 01:16, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I change Havasupai falls to havasu, i don think there is a huge difference but it probably is common usage as havasu. Heres the thing with the photos, the ones marked as Ken Baldwin are from him, and were given to me by him. he has no problem with me putting them up, but i didnt know which license to use. So if you have some suggestions please shoot them over and ill fix them.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 14:41, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Gonzo_fan2007, there's another problem. It seems the images you uploaded were taken by "Ken Baldwin." You can't upload somebody else's pics and then mark them with licensing terms indicating "self" release into the public domain. Do you have Ken Baldwin's permission to upload these images? If so, you'll have to provide evidence of such and then change the licensing terms to something more appropriate. That's gotta be fixed, and soon... or they'll be deleted by an admin. -- Moondigger 23:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey i have to go but if you sned me the right tag for the pics i will have them up by tonight or tomorrow morning. I can get a letter from ken releasing the pics to me if necessary, i was trying to read up on what to do. Thanks for the help, and add anything to the article you deem fit. I just tried to pick my brain as much as possible.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs}

All the photos are tagged under the right license. If needed i can still get a letter of release, if there are any people who question or object to them. I uploaded some more photos that are mine.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs}

[edit] Deletion of sentence

I deleted the sentence "The Falls is magical as most people say, we have had millons of tourists who have all said that they will remember this holiday for years to come." as it is poorly written and lacks any encyclopedic knowledge and is a POV. It also doesnt make sense in the context of the Havasu Falls section.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 06:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] most remote city

In doing a quick google search for "most remote city in america", an article came up that claims that Congress recognized Page as holding this title. I couldn't find a reference to Supai holding this distinction, so unless it gets cited, the reference should be removed. Murderbike 21:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[1] under the "Supai, Arizona" section states it is but i have been thinking about stating it is "one of the most remote cities in America" because it is subjective to a lot of things. So ill make the change. Thanks.
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 07:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Current version states incorrectly that the town can only be accessed via 66 -> 18 -> hike. Somehow the helicopter option needs to be incorporated as an alternative.Kalvitz (talk) 16:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I think you were reverted because your wording suggested taking a helicopter to the trailhead, which is of course possible, but not an ordinary way of getting there. From the trailhead, one may get to Supai by foot, horse, or helicopter.--Curtis Clark (talk) 17:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I see your point. Feel free to suggest alternative wording to make it more clear.Kalvitz (talk) 18:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)