Talk:Hasmonean

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Contents 1 temple Gerizim 2 BC 3 Accuracy 4 Title 5 Objection to the use of this image 6 Date notation 7 Other sources 8 Removal of portion under Jewish religious scholarship 9 Proposal of Aditional Information

[edit] temple Gerizim

Some mention should also be added to this article that John Hyrcanus destroyed the Samaritan temple on Mount Gerizim in 108 B.C. This made even worse the general hostility between Samaritans and the Judeans.

I moved some paragraphs from the Maccabee page to here, and added some closing words. --Sponsianus 00:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] BC

This page originally had BC/AD dates when created and it is against wikipedia policy to change them to BCE/CE. You must stick with the dating system laid out at it's creation. Chooserr

[edit] Accuracy

I removed the part about pig meat being offered in the defiled Temple. This anecdote should surely be treated with the caution best applied to all ancient sources. If anyone wishes to add an account of Epiphanes' assumed crime feel free to do so, but IMHO they should be presented as "The book of Maccabees" says, because the background of the king's intervention in Jerusalem is extremely complicated. These accounts might be possibly better suited for the Hanukkah article.

Also, I changed G-d to divine. While not at all wishing to offend anyone by forcing them to read the full word such as it is spelt in other Wikipedia articles (though people must be prepared to see it on the Internet), I think this diplomatic rewriting keeps consistency and neutrality. There is indeed an article called G-d, but the full word is spelt out there. --Sponsianus 21:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Shouldnt this be Hasmoneans or Hasmonea or Hasmonen Kingdom? -Ste|vertigo 06:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. It should be Hasmoneans or Hasmonean Dynasty. --Gilabrand 06:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Objection to the use of this image

I object to the use of the image containing the map of the Hasmonean Kingdom set against the background of the so-called present-day borders of Israel. The image is also being used in the articles on Hanukkah, on Maccabees, on Judas Maccabeus, on Jewish history and on the Golan Heights. But these are not the internationally recognised borders of Israel. The image suggests that the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are integral parts of the state of Israel, whereas this is subject to international disputes. To present these borders as undisputed facts, is to lessen the quality of information provided by Wikipedia. I therefore decided to remove this image. In a (very swift) reaction by a Wikipedia administrator, he accused me of "blatant vandalism". That is absurd. I'm in the habit of using Wikipedia as a source of factual, unbiased information. Ocasionally, I make a small contribution to try to enhance the factual accuracy of an article. To enhance an article is not vandalism. It is what I thought Wikipedia was all about. There are undoubtedly many images available that could be used in these articles that depict the borders of Israel, while clearly marking the disputed Palestinian Territories and the Golan Heights as disputed entities. Why would an unbiased encyclopedia, out of of all the available options, choose an image that is provided by the Israeli Foreign Ministry? If it is Wikipedia's standard policy to discourage user participation in this agressive way, then in my view, it fails in its stated purpose. --82.215.24.131 13:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

please do not double post. you have left this comment at talk:Golan Heights, Talk:Hasmonean, Talk:Judas Maccabeus, Talk:Maccabees, Talk:Hanukkah, and Talk:Jewish history. I have moved it to Image talk:Hasmonean-map.jpg. Jon513 14:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for opening that Image talk page and for your comment. But I would also have to disagree with you on multiple postings. There is a good reason to place multiple postings. Many users only view one of the involved pages. If they wish to see whether there are differences of opinion on the article they are reading, they have a right to a complete overview. Now if they would happen to forget to click on the image itself (and subsequently on its Image talk page), but instead would only view this discussion page, they would be denied that complete overview, if there were no multiple postings.--82.215.24.131 17:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date notation

Let's bring some consistency to this article: it uses both BCE/CE and BC/AD (actually, I didn't see any "AD" yet). Since this article has nothing to do with Christianity and concerns Jewish history & religion, I hope there will be no objections to use religion-neutral BCE/CE notation. See WP:MOSDATE for more. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 01:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I endorse this view unreservedly and would like to amplify. I just cleaned up a few messes on this page and am getting tired of it. A user stated above "you must stick with the dating system laid out at its creation." That statement is false and does not reflect the guideline laid out at WP:SEASON. To the contrary, there are two acceptable reasons for changing a date style:

1. Changes made for a "substantive reason." This includes, but is not limited to, reverting the work of date warriors (editors who scour Wikipedia making tendentious edits to era style without regard to consensus or substance, usually leaving deceptive edit summaries marked "minor" or other editors who make similar edits, albeit only occasionally).
2. Changes to make the article internally consistent. This does not mean changing 15 instances of BCE to match one of BC in a Jewish or South or East Asian history related article. That change should be made the other way round.

Since there is a clear, long-term consensus favoring BCE/CE in articles related to Jewish history, there is no question in my mind that there is a substantive reason to use that style here, and that edits to the contrary may be summarily reverted. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 08:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other sources

I will try to put some work into this in the next few weeks, but right now I really do not have a lot of time to dedicate to sustained writing for Wikipedia. My initial thoughts looking at this is that it contains what some might call a lot of original research, and could be in violation of WP:ATT. Put another way, the article ignores considerable work by established historians. For starts, ther has been debate over how to interpret the sources to understand the Hasmonean rebellion. The classic positions are laid out by Elias Bickerman (From Ezra to the Last of the Maccabees) and Victor Tcherikover (Hellensitic Civilization and the Jews) - the article should provide an account of the debate between the two as to the causes and nature of the rebellion. It should also draw on work by more recent historians: Shaye J.D. Cohen, M. Stern (in the massive volume edited by Ben-Sasson) and Lee Levine. This may be too much for one person to do but if there are a few really committed editors here maybe you can divide up the work. it has been a long time since I read this stuff so I cannot say specifically how it would change the article. My point is that there are some very good works of scholarship out there, verificable and reliable sources, and the first thing to do to improve this article is to take account of that scholarship. Slrubenstein | Talk 16:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of portion under Jewish religious scholarship

I just removed the quote by the scholar Nahmanides, for from what I can see he is referring to the dynasty of Herod the Great, not the Hasmoneans. Please clarify if this is wrong.Sponsianus 21:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal of Aditional Information

Hi. I am removing the debate over my specif claim of being a Hasmonean heirs since I need to wait more time until new studies can be publish by credible companies. I really appreciate every single comment. I bealive that in order for my claim to be regognized around the world, it will take a lot more time. Probably many years. But anyway thanks for every help! See you guys some day! Take Care! (:-)--Chris Cohen / Jornalist / President of Jornal Goyaz, founded in 1884, with 124 years on brazilian market. / President of the Brazilian Association of Cohanim. (talk) 17:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)