Template talk:Harvard citation

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Template:Harvard citation is permanently protected from editing, as it is a heavily used or visible template.

Substantial changes should be proposed here, and made by administrators if the proposal is uncontroversial, or has been discussed and is supported by consensus. Use {{editprotected}} to attract the attention of an administrator in such cases.
Any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes, categories or interwiki links.

Contents

[edit] Citing a book without an author

How is this done with the Harvard parenthetical citation templates? I am a newbie to using reference templates, and it just so happens that the reference I need to make is one that does not seem to be covered. There appear to be several different reference template systems on Wikiepedia in different states of completion (in terms of referencing features). This (no author) situation could easily be handled with the <ref name="blah" > ... </ref>{{rp| pages}} system, but that won't produce the kind of notations I want in the text (it will make hyperlinked footnotes instead of parenthetical notes).

[edit] Conversion from qif to ParserFunctions

I've converted this template from using {{qif}} to m:ParserFunctions (PF). Due to a bug in PF, numbered template parameters do not work when PF is used. As a workaround, I'm using this template here as a front end converting from numbered parameters to named parameters. The logic of this template is implemented in {{Harvard citation 2}} using PF. --Ligulem 18:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Omniplex found a simpler workaround for bugzilla:5678: use empty defaults everywhere: {{{1}}} → {{{1|}}} and so on. {{Harvard citation 2}} is no longer needed then. I've speedied it. --Ligulem 12:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Optional brackets?

For certain purposes - e.g. the very clever referencing system at Rabindranath Tagore - it would be useful to be able to drop the surrounding brackets. Could this be done with a parameter? Or would it be better just to copy and paste the code to a new template with a name like {{Harvnb}}? TheGrappler 17:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I would copy this template here and leave away the round brackets. This would be KISS. --Ligulem 18:14, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
There is now {{Harvard citation no brackets}}. A request: would editors who edit this template make parallel edits on that template too? TheGrappler 01:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page numbers

I asked this question at the helpdesk, but now think this is the correct page. If not, please pardon my error:

The Harvard citation page uses a colon:

  • When you can (or should) provide a page number, the convention is (Smith 2005: 73).

BTW this is the method I prefer. However the citation examples in the Harvard Reference Templates section on Wikipedia:Template_messages/Sources_of_articles show that templates use "p." or "pp.":

  • (Smith 1879, p. 289).

The format in the guideline differs from the format produced by the template. Why? Which is authoritative? If the guideline/template is authoritative, would someone please change the template/guideline? Does someone have the last word on this kind of issue? (Full disclosure: I would prefer that the template be changed, because of my preference stated above).

Using {{Harvard citation | Smith | 2006:182-187}} leaves the page numbers as part of the link, which is both counterintuitive and esthetically unappealing, IMHO. [PS: I just tried it out, and the link doesn't work if formatted that way. So the "counterintuitive and esthetically unappealing" comment is irrelevant anyhow.]

Thanks, Ling.Nut 04:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to be a pest. I copied & trivially modified the Harvard citation template, new template named Template:Harvcol, to serve the purpose I was requesting. Thanks!

Ling.Nut 23:40, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Made three new Harvard templates

I made three new Harvard citation templates. Not sure if there is some group overseeing these kinds of things. If I've gone beyond bold into reckless, please let me know.

  • Template:Harvcol. Harvard citation with colons for page numbers.
  • Template:Harvcolnb. Same as above, no brackets.
  • Template:Harvcoltxt. Same as above, can use for cites like "according to Smith (1999), the..." Links to Auth name & year. Looks a bit funny when page numbers are included.

Examples are at: Austronesian languages, Homeland section.

Thanks Ling.Nut 03:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Many different authors and different books in one footnote?

Hello, I'm putting these templates to Finnish Civil War but I've come to one problem. For example , the strenghts have one fote but three authors and three different books. Then the link below doesn't work.

I tried this: ref name="Strength"> (Arimo, Manninen, Upton 1991, 1992-1993, 1981, p. 289)</ref

but when I click the finished link it finds nothing. Hyperlinking between note and references, that's what I'm trying. --Pudeo (Talk) 12:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah well, now that I've tried many things I guess I need to split them to different notes and then put for example [1] [2] [4] in Strenghts for example? That's not better than to have them in one but no can do? Or hmm, could it be possible that at the notes to click the other name to get other reference that are still in the same note? And well, this explanation is quite confusing as it seems, check Finnish Civil War first note to see what I mean. --Pudeo (Talk) 13:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
To cite multiple works, you would need to use multiple templates. Also, you'd probably want to use Template:Harvnb. For example, I'd use ({{Harvnb|Arimo|1991}}; {{Harvnb|Manninen|1992-1993}}; {{Harvnb|Upton|1981}}), which would produce (Arimo 1991; Manninen 1992-1993; Upton 1981).

[edit] Template is confused by five or more authors

This template gets confused by many authors. If you have five or more authors, then your use of this template today can only list the first four otherwise, the fifth author is taken to be the year. I feel this is a bug. This template should be documented to only take four or fewer authors and give some kind of error or skip to the last argument for the year in the case that five or more authors are given. Thanks. WilliamKF 21:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Using Template:Harvard_citation without using Template:Harvard_reference?

I'm editing a page, Eicosanoid, which is currently referenced in Harvard reference style, but not using the Harvard templates. I'm considering doing a mass edit in order to get links from the inline cites down to the reference section, using the the Harvard templates.

Is it possible to use the Template:Harvard_citation without using the Template:Harvard_reference? I've got a lot of references using Template:Cite. Inline in the body of the article, there's unlinked text in Harvard style that calls them out. I want to hyperlink the body text to the references, but converting all those Cite templates into Harvard_reference seems daunting. Plus, since Harvard_reference lacks a DOI field, conversion would be lossy. David.Throop 15:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Cite journal and Cite web templates do not have any kind of a linking functionality. Somebody should add that functionality to the other templates. COGDEN 19:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to cite a newspaper

In the Harvard Reference template, the page gives an example of a newspaper reference, so here we need an example of citing such a reference. I feel just doing author (the byline) year is not accurate and think that a cite using the name of the newspaper is more valuable. WilliamKF 20:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I think if there is a named author of a newspaper article, or the author is the paper's editor, they probably should be cited as the author. For example, if you cite to an analysis by Lou Dobbs, it's more important to the reader to know that Dobbs wrote it, rather than what paper it's in. In other cases, however, where the article lists the author as merely "Associated Press" or "United Press International", I guess we have two options, either to treat it as a corporate author, or modify the Harvard reference template to allow linking by the name of the periodical. I'm not sure how best to implement that, however. There has to be some "signal" in the parameters of the Harvard reference template telling it that it will be cited by newspaper title rather than author. COGDEN 23:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FULLPAGENAME

Why does this template use {{FULLPAGENAME}} ? This causes the template to produce links as [[article#CITEREF...]] and as a consequence, the links do not work during edit preview. I think that if we remove FULLPAGENAME, we get links like [[#CITEREF...]] which do work during edit preview. However, I don't know the full details about how templates work and I'm probably missing an important detail. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 05:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

My first attempt was disastrous; apologies to anybody who suffered the consequences. However, after a bit of testing (what I should have done immediately), I found a version does what I want. The links now also work during edit preview. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 06:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] includeonly

Please surround the template code with "<includeonly></includeonly>" to remove the ugly "([[#CITEREF|]])" which appears when reading the template's documentation. BernardM 11:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spaces in examples

The examples have blank spaces surrounding the parameter. However, entering this info so spaced creates links that duplicate the spaces, like #CITEREF_Asimov_2005, breaking the link to the {{Citation}}. Would it be okay to remove these in the examples? I can see the value of italics in the parameter descriptions, but the spaces introduce problems for editors. / edg ☺ ★ 02:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] different caption

Is it possible to have a Harvtxt or similar template showing a caption which is different from the author's name and year? I want something like

This was shown in EGA IV

the latter redlink pointing to the reference

[edit] hard spaces between p. or pp. and page numbers

Please see Tony1's comment here: this template's documentation (and derivatives) specifies using &nbsp; when the "loc" parameter is used, but doesn't use the hard spaces when the "p=" or "pp=" parameters are used. Would there be any objections if the harv series of templates are changed to include the &nbsp; in those cases? Carre (talk) 15:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

As above, this template and its derivatives ({{harvnb}} and {{harvtxt}}) need changing to use a "hard space" between "p."/"pp." and the page number/range. Having checked the harvcol derivatives, those seem ok.
Change would be:
 {{#if:{{{loc|}}}
   |, {{{loc|}}}
   |{{#if:{{{p|}}}
      |, p. {{{p|}}}
      |{{#if:{{{pp|}}}
         |, pp. {{{pp|}}}
       }}
    }}

to

 {{#if:{{{loc|}}}
   |, {{{loc|}}}
   |{{#if:{{{p|}}}
      |, p.&nbsp;{{{p|}}}
      |{{#if:{{{pp|}}}
         |, pp.&nbsp;{{{pp|}}}
       }}
    }}
Obviously, fairly commonly used templates, so care needed :) Thanks. Carre (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done &nbsp-ified :) --slakr\ talk / 07:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{Documentation}} template

{{editprotected}}

Please replace {{/doc}} with {{Documentation}} in noinclude tag. Currently, it is confusing whether the documentation is subpaged. --219.165.188.51 (talk) 10:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 11:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From the reference to the text?

Is there a way, using this template, to go from the reference list to the point or points in the text where a particular text is cited? Goochelaar (talk) 00:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

If you use the {{harv}} template(s) inside <ref></ref> tags, then you end up with regular inline citations, with the harvard citation where ever you put the <references /> tag (or {{reflist}}. See this for an example. Is this what you mean? Carre (talk) 08:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, but it is not exactly what I had in mind. I would like on the one hand to have in the text references of the form "(Smith, 2003)", which are useful to see at a glance the authors being cited, and on the other hand to be able to notice something interesting in the bibliography and from there find where it is cited within the text. Am I asking too much? Goochelaar (talk) 09:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I get you - so, like you can jump forward from the {{harv}} in the text to the bibliography, you want a back-link. It should certainly be possible (although not in the current version) - after all, regular inline citations do it already. Any such change would need to be coordinated between the harv family of templates and whatever citation template (probably {{citation}}, since these already work with each other to produce the forward link). The main problem I can see would be the sheer number of back-links that may be associated with a single bibliography entry. Carre (talk) 09:35, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] bug

There is a slight bug, namely sometimes the template produces an erroneous space between the author and the year. For example

{{harvard citations|txt=yes|first=W.V.O.|last=Quine|author1-link=Willard Van Orman Quine|year=1960|year2=1967}}

yields

W.V.O. Quine (1960, 1967)

note the two spaces (one too much) between Quine and the year. Can somebody with admin rights (or whatever is needed) fix this, please? It looks pretty odd. Thanks. Actually, also between 1960 and 1967 there is too much space. Jakob.scholbach (talk) 17:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure it's not your browser? Looks fine to me (single space between author and (year), and single space between (year1, year2). Aside from that, this template is {{harvard citation}}, and you're using {{harvard citations}} (plural). Might be quicker and better to take the comment over there, if it's still a problem. Carre (talk) 13:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


OK, I will go there. Jakob.scholbach (talk) 09:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please add french interwiki

[[fr:Template:Référence Harvard]] 220.135.4.212 (talk) 13:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. For future reference, you could have done it yourself by editing Template:Harvard citation/doc or pressing the edit link after the text "This documentation is transcluded from Template:Harvard citation/doc". This should work on a lot of protected template pages. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 17:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Allow to use template cite paper

If this is not the case, it would be really usefull if the Template:Cite paper could also be used! EtudiantEco (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New icon as link rather than using the name as link?

I just discovered this template and find it really good! However, I wonder why the link to the reference is made on the name of the author (which lets think you will be redirect to his wiki page) and the year? Would it be possible rather to add an extra icon redirecting to the reference, and let the name and year free, so that they can be used as direct links? This would be more wikipedia like. Thanks! EtudiantEco (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)