Talk:Hare Krishna

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[edit] Devanagari

Hey, the guy told me to put this here. Can somebody please fix this and put it on the article?

हर कृषण हर कृषण
कृषण कृषण हर हर
हर राम हर राम
राम राम हर हर

(This is wrong, but I do not know how to make the proper shape appear. There should be a diagonal mark starting at the right hand top corner of the word हर (hare), and going diagonally upwards, as in the image.) David G Brault 21:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

try Devanagari. It's हरे, कृष्ण, राम. The -ष्ण- will probably render with virama, not as a ligature, in most browsers. The Devanagari is redundant anyway, it is enough to give it in romanization. --dab (𒁳) 08:32, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


Right now the Devanagari still is wrong...what's above the RE of the HARE currently on the page is the "hat" to make it into a long I (shotting towards the right), instead of the line starting at the top of the RE of the HARE and going upwards and to the left (this line makes it an E sound instead of an A sound)...can someone fix this? I don't know how....or it should be taken off, because it's worse to have it up there wrong than to not have it at all.67.180.149.106 (talk) 21:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)Unmani Sarasvati 2/10/08

[edit] Iskcon centric article

This article is overly biased towards Iskcon movement. Hare Krishna chanting has been done all over India every day for thousands of years before ISKCON made it famous in the west. I am including a link to a non-ISKCON Hare Krishna Chanting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rath yatra 17:37, 29 Oct 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Disambiguation page

I will look into having a seperate article for ISKCON and a seperate article for the mantra itself. Alternatively, we could just merge the ISKCON parts with the ISKCON wikipedia article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rath yatra 17:41, 29 Oct 2007 (UTC).

Dear Rath yatra, articles regarding ISKCON and Gaudiya Math already exist elsewhere. This article describes the Hare Krishna mantra specifically. I do not see any purpose in having a disambiguation page. Wikipedia is written in English language for an international audience, and includes details of relevant current and past events. It is significant to note that it became well known on an international basis from the 60's and 70's due to modern Gaudiya movements. If you have any neutral details to add, please discuss them here. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 09:44, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I agree

GourangaUK, I also agree with you. I'm just saying that every external link is an ISKCON and Gaudiya Math link. I want to give mention to other traditions. Also, see your talk page regarding linking to youtube. Rath yatra 02:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

In addition, i'd also like to add that the Hare Krishna mantra audio link sounds like a professional recording which is fine but it doesn't represent the way its sung by millions of Hindus everyday in India which is something that is lacking in this article. For someone who doesn't know anything about "Hare Krishna", the article would give the wrong impression that Hare Krishn mantra is mainly related to the "Hare Krishna" movement.
Rath yatra 17:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with including a range of relevant links, however I feel the article does present accurate information. Although of historically-distant origins (described within the article) the Hare Krishna mantra became far more well-known throughout India due to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's influence, and the Gaudiya Vaishnava movement that followed. It is also this branch of Vaishnavism which has focused more exclusively on the mantra. Thus I don't believe it is not incorrect to point this (and the influence of the later international movements) out in the article. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 12:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This page needs some objective content

Virtually everything on this page is regarding Hare Krishna as a religion/philosophy and it trys to put Hare Krishna in a purely positive light. However, some other related topics need to be added for objectivity: a) Comments in the past by Hare Krishna leaders that women are less intelligent than men b) Collapse of the Hare Krishna organization in the 80's and 90's in North America

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.100.172 (talk) 06:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Please note that this page is primarily about the Hare Krishna mantra and the religious practices associated with it. For political history or comment please refer to the relevant organisations main articles, such as International Society for Krishna Consciousness or Gaudiya Math etc ... Please also note Wikipedia's policies regarding original research and verifiability. Regards, Gouranga(UK) (talk) 14:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Gouranga is a Hare Krishna name. So, most likely, GourangaUK is a member of the Hare Krishna Movement. So, how is it that he is controlling what goes on in this site? You cannot expect him to be objective. Reading this page, one can see that nothing here is really controversial or has criticism of the Hare Krishna movement. How is it that Wikipedia allows a member of the Hare Krishna Movement control what is put in and not put in this web page?
Wikipedia supposed to be a non-biased website, but I can see that it is not. Therefore, this page is not a true picture of the Hare Krishna Movement. Several people that I know, including myself, have concluded that this page is simply a propaganda page for the Hare Krishna Movement.
If anyone tries to put any controversial material no matter how factual or document it might be, it is immediately removed.
It looks as though the Wikipedia people might be receiving money from the Hare Krishna Movement so they (the Hare Krishna people) can keep this page as they fit.
I would like to informed my friends to form a campaign concerning Wikipedia and its unreliability as far as the Hare Krishna web page is concerned. This page has been corrupted and the Wikipedia people have allowed it to happened. —Preceding unsigned comment added by George3h (talk • contribs) 23:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear George, with all due respect you are missing the point, and also your comments in regards to myself clearly go against Wikipedia's good faith policy. The point is that this page is primarily about the Hare Krishna mantra and associated practices, and is not primarily about The Hare Krishna movement, which is made up of several organisations, which are listed seperately in Wikipedia (ISKCON, Gaudiya Math, Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mission, Gaudiya Kutir...). Space for criticism of these movements exists on their individual pages, please see the links above. I have replaced the criticism section in the ISKCON article several times after well-meaning members of ISKCON removed it. Have you read the ISKCON article? Your comments in regards to Wikipedia receiving money from the Hare Krishna's in order to favour bias is simply ludicrous. This is page which anyone can edit. Regards, Gouranga(UK) (talk) 11:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry George3h, but you seem to be grossly misinformed. This article is about the Hare Krishna mantra and associated practises. Krishna consciousness is the most associated practice. ISKCON does not send money to wikipedia, not only because it is interested in people hearing the truth, but also because it is simply impossible in the context of wikipedia to do so. Do you not understand the way in which these articles are written? There is nobody to give money to, apart from maybe you, and by the sound of your comments, you haven't received any ;). Harrifer (talk) 12:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Ummmm, Harrifer, wikipedia does receive financial contributions from users. In fact, they encourage it. You can find a link at the very bottom of this page as to how to make a tax-deductible donation. Philosopher2king (talk) 14:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)philosopher2king

[edit] Blatant Omissions

This article is overtly biased in favor of the HK movement and not objective. The section Movement states the HK were once considered a cult but goes on to disprove that claim by citing a link that does not exist. There is also no mention of the abuses and several murders committed in the US by members of the church, one of which was engineered by swami Bhaktipada, a church leader. One of the reasons why the movement has lost a lot of steam and is almost non-existent these days. Here is a link to the story, I'll work it into the article next week but if someone wants to edit it, please feel free to do so.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DEEDA1530F934A25755C0A961948260

Philosopher2king (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)philosopher2king 6/8/08

It is an important observation. However one should not that Swami Bhaktipada (Kirtanananda Swami) was not a member of the movement you refer to and was kicked out because of this and other problems. This is all important for ISKCON article.
Now this article is about Hare Krishna mantra and all problems discussed are in relevant pages of various sects or organisations that form part of the larger movement. Its important to mention that what you refer is an allegation and the link should be checked, but must refer to the page of [Kirtanananda Swami]] where a lot of works needs to be done or look at ISKCON page? This article has nothing to do with it. Wikidās ॐ 23:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

As Wikidas states, this was not something done by ISKCON, but by an action by an individual who was unconnected. There were some abuses in some institutions, but these were clearly and concisely dealt with. Abuse of any sort is not something condoned by ISKCON, and the welfare of women and children is considered paramount. Despite the fact that such abuses may happen in these sort of environments, they are CERTAINLY not condoned, or left alone.

ISKCON is not, and has never been a cult. Look at the life of Prabhupada, he lived more simply than most of his disciples. Srila Prabhupada also said on several occasions that if people wanted to attend the temple but not contribute time or money, that this was acceptable. I suggest you read up on what a cult is and what ISKCON is. I can understand that something so unusual may be misunderstood, so I don't blame you for your interpretation, but you must know that we do not give all our worldly possessions, and mass suicides are actively discouraged. Harrifer (talk) 12:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikidas, I agree to an extent but this article reads in overly positive tones about "the movement" and even goes into a discussion into why it is not a cult. Again, what you say makes sense, but then the article should be edited to include only theological and historical material and not get into discussions as to why it is not a cult because there is more material to the contrary. As it is right now, it sounds apologetic and not as an unbiased article.

Harrifer, I have nothing but respect for you and your right to a belief system. Surely a spiritual path followed with reason and ethics can provide one with immeasurable blessings. However, religion is done by people and people are flawed. The HK movement, at least in the US has suffered from that (a religion is not a cult by itself, it is always the way it is organized that makes it a cult or not). I am not saying ISKON as a whole condones anything improper but part of the leadership, and do bare in mind that swami Bhaktipada was not "unconnected" but the leader of the largest HK community at that time, and he approved a killing. Philosopher2king (talk) 14:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)philosopher2king

I do not want to go into details, some of what you have said does not have relevance, or is against the policies, but if you do have relevant sources Im sure you can deal with it on appropriate pages and if you need help I can do that. I will take this discussion as a consensus that the section on cult/no cult to be removed and edited to include only theological and historical material as relevant to this article. Wikidās ॐ 14:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good, wikidas. Religious affiliations aside, wikipedia is about objective content. Philosopher2king (talk) 15:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)philosopher2king
Objective content should have a proper place and sources. There are limitations on how allegations can influence information about living people. I guess you need some academic or otherwise reliable research to back up your claims. What do you think? You definitions of the cult are also not very developed. Wikidās ॐ 15:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikidas, I don't understand your point. My concern is simple and straightforward: if this article is about the Hare Krishna as a religion, then the content should refrain from defending the reasons of why it is not, or hasn't ever been, a cult. In other words, don't touch the topic if you are not willing to give equal time to both sides of the issue. Read the Protestantism or Catholicism articles and see how the topic is not even included. I can't make it any clearer than that. I see that the "cult" material is gone (I didn't change it) so I won't push the issue anymore, but the way the article had it was a straw man and not even a good one at that. Philosopher2king (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)philosopher2king