Talk:Hans-Thilo Schmidt
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[edit] Names
Both the man's name and cryptonym appear to be misspelled. I've generally seen them written "Hans-Thilo Schmidt," and "Asche" rather than "Asch." Logologist 08:18, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Asche is german for ash (but the french would probably choose some french word) Asch is no german word but the sound of
the french letter H , I think Koczazuk refers to "AH" the french would spell that how Asch sounds in german.
[edit] degree of importance to Engima break in Poland
My impression from the literature is that Rejewski's initial break into Engima was independent of Asche's information, though it proved helpful in working out details after Rejewski's analytic breakthrough. Indeed I recall being surprised at learning that his supervisor withheld all (or much, memory fails) of Asche's data from Rejewski. The article states, somewhat baldly, that Asche's information enabled the break. I think some revision in wording is indicated to more clearly credit Rejewski's role.
Comments? ww 17:13, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Interesting point about Rejewski's superiors perhaps having withheld subsequent materials that might have been provided by Bertrand. A hypothesis (my own? someone else's?): if the French did provide the Poles more material obtained from Asche, the mathematicians' superiors might have wanted to keep them operationally independent of intelligence material for their ongoing reading of Enigma traffic. Logologist 09:10, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Have a look at Marian Rejewski. User:Logologist added several quotes by Rejewski himself, including:
- "To this day, it is not known whether equation set (3) is soluble. [Its solution would yield the wirings.] To be sure, another way was found, at least in theory, to reconstruct the [wirings] in the drums. Still, this approach is imperfect and tedious. [I]t requires possession of messages from two days with the same or close settings of the drums, and hence it conditions the discovery of the drum connections on chance, and then it also requires many trials, so that it is not clear that the Cipher Bureau's directors would have had the patience to employ several personnel for a long period without certainty of getting results [...]. Hence the conclusion is that the intelligence material furnished to us should be regarded as having been decisive to solution of the machine." (Rejewski, in Kozaczuk's Enigma 1984, p. 258.) [emphasis mine].
- I think it's fair to say that the documents provided by Schmidt enabled the break, and that it doesn't take anything away from Rejewski's achievement. — Matt Crypto 18:30, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- Matt, I was aware of that observation from Rejewski. Nevertheless, it seems to me that MR found an entirely new approach to cryptanalysis and did so without assistance from Asche's data. Given that analytic break, the data helped with the further work of making practical the advance. A shift of emphasis, perhaps, is all that I perceive to be needed. ww 18:38, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Sure, although I think the bald assertion is fine in the lead section; I've added a sentence to the main body of the article that should clarify that Rejewsi's work, in addition to Schmidts treachery, was necessary. — Matt Crypto 19:12, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Matt, I was aware of that observation from Rejewski. Nevertheless, it seems to me that MR found an entirely new approach to cryptanalysis and did so without assistance from Asche's data. Given that analytic break, the data helped with the further work of making practical the advance. A shift of emphasis, perhaps, is all that I perceive to be needed. ww 18:38, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Operator manuals
it shall be noted again that the enigma operator manuals in their first editions gave away many info that should have been kept utmostly secret to make the very machine a properly secret tool. This was one of the many grave mistakes that happened at that time. greetings to Matt ! Frank
- Yes: in particular, Marian Rejewski made use of a stretch of matching plaintext and ciphertext, together with the key
settings, in an early manual, in order to resolve ambiguity in his solution of the Enigma rotor wiring. — Matt Crypto 04:19, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Motive
where was it that said Schmidt's motive was money , he was not a political spy like Richard Sorge ? Frank
- Hugh Sebag-Montefiore's book digs into Schmidt's background and motivations. "Should Hans Thilo Schmidt be revered as an unsung hero, or had he just spied for the money? He had not exactly given the Enigma cipher to the Allies. He had sold it to them for a lot of money, and his original act of treachery had taken place two years before the Nazis seized power...[he] was perfectly prepared to put his life on the line as long as he made a handsome profit, and seduced a lot of women, in the process" (p. 10) — Matt Crypto 04:19, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
