Talk:Hanoi

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Contents

[edit] few matters

1. i cleaned up the external links a bit for obvious ones to be removed. 1 non-working link, 2 links about hotels, 1 promotional travel guide, 1 vietnamese forum which does not enhance the article. i say the expat forum links should be removed too and posted in wikitravel, but it's your call. i also added a photo link that was far more complete than any of the others that were already there, and provided good views of very typical Hanoi street scenes. 2. i added a bit to the cuisine section but not much. i might work on this later, but i'm vegetarian so it would help if someone else who had a more wholesome view of vietnamese food could do it. 3. i think the Hotels section needs to go. we don't need to know there is a Sheraton and a Hilton in Hanoi, there is nothing special about them. this can go in the "Sleep / Splurge" section of wikitravel. 4. i think this needs to be organised more like an encyclopedia article and not a travel guide. sections should be such as "Major monuments", "Cuisine", "Economy", and so on rather than "Tourist Attractions", etc.

thoughts? 18.62.31.230 (talk) 22:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

NewHanoian.com[1] needs to stay. Anyone who has spent any time in Hanoi knows this resource as THE source for info on what is going on around town. It provides Q&A about the city, culture, government, and daily life, as well as classifieds, a weekly "what's going on" schedule, and user created reviews on every venue imaginable, including hotels, restaurants, bars, museums, English schools, and foreign embassies. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't even have ads. It's equally valuable to locals, expats, and tourists, and it needs to stay. Darth Twit (talk) 05:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cuisine

Need someone to write an article about cuisine in Hanoi! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.203.114.231 (talk) 23:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the newly added transportation section is more suited for Wikitravel? DHN 03:30, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Someone (82.27.205.64) came in and took out all of the Chinese. As a former Chinese-controlled state, it's relevant (Especially since Chinese writing was used widely). He did this in other places, but I don't know enough about it to revert (Wiki code and chinese), nor do I want to go through the hassle if it's going to be reverted. Michael.Niemann 02:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

That was me. I removed the Chinese translation because it's entirely irrelevant. This is an English Wikipedia and everything should be in English except for maybe the local name which is not in Chinese. The only place that Chinese translation should be included is probably on the origin of the name. There are much more people in Vietnam who can understand English or even French, German than Chinese. Even before the romanised system is invented, Vietnamese use "chu+~ no^m" - not Chinese. If Chinese translation should be included just because the Chinese controlled Vietnam then maybe we should also add Vietnamese translation to every entry on provinces in Southern China since Vietnamese used to control this area, Latin translation should also be added to entries on English cities since the Roman used to control England, Vietnamese translation for Cambodian cities, Khmer translation for Thai cities, etc. That's a great way to make a mess of Wikipedia.--lt2hieu2004 03:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
All the name of Hanoi are chinese origin (and with its meaning)! it's not the case of Khmer or Thai!Chuoibk 10:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Can someone include a pronunciation guide? I came here wondering whether it was "han-oy" or "han-wa" (given the French influences) and the page doesn't answer that question. --P3d0 13:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

It's pronounced according to Vietnamese pronunciation rules: Hah-noy. The French write it as Hanoï. DHN 14:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro paragraph - dates

It states that Hanoi "served as the capital of French Indochina from 1887 to 1945. From 1945 to 1976, it was the capital of North Vietnam." I believe 1945 should be changed to 1954 - the French maintained Hanoi as their Indochinese capital until the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, no?

Also, did the French hold onto Hanoi during the Japanese occupation during WWII, or was there an interruption? --Davecampbell 19:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Hanoi zoo used to be a really good place to view the massive asian gaur. I've seen one, as big as a young elephant, back in 1992, but now there's no more. What a pity:

http://www.indianaturewatch.net/displayimage.php?id=2540

http://www.arkive.org/species/GES/mammals/Bos_frontalis/Bos_frontalis_00.html

[edit] External Link

There's an external link that really needs to be added to the Hanoi page. I know that section is policed quite rigorously, but this deserves a spot. It's The New Hanoian. I just spent over a year in Hanoi, and I can tell you that this site is definitely a valuable (and free) tool. It just started to take off last spring, and it's already proving to be more relevant than any of the guide books. They list just about every place they come across, not just the tourist hot spots. Any objections? VietGrant 19:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

  • nice, but this sounds like the kind of thing that belongs on wikitravel instead, don't you think? i think it's nicer if external links point directly to static information that supports the article, rather than forums and such. people who read Wikipedia aren't trying to live in Hanoi, they're trying to learn about it. thoughts? 18.62.31.230 (talk) 22:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
  • There is a wealth of information there that exceeds the description of "travel guide". Per Wikipedia rules: "This section is for linking to websites with significant and reliable additional information on an article's topic."

    Topic: Hanoi
    Significant and reliable additional information on the topic: Yes. Darth Twit (talk) 06:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blacklist

Alright, something needs to be done about this guy, 203.160.1.47. He's tried to promote his crap site multiple times here. It's littered with butchered English and tons of advertising links, not to mention the blatant plagiarism (word-for-word) of other reputable sites about Vietnam.

After viewing his talk page for just fifteen seconds, it's quite obvious that this guy is up to no good here. Obviously a bot of some sort. What's it going to take to get this IP blacklisted? VietGrant 07:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Founding Year is not 1010

Is this article about the settlements that collectively make up what is now called "Hanoi", or is it about the settlement once it was called Hanoi? Dai La is/was located inside what is called now Hanoi (i.e. not province (like Co Loa), but city). Dai La is much older than 1010. In 1010, Dai La was renamed to "Thang Long", i.e not Hanoi. "Hanoi" as such did not exist in 1010 ... the settlement was called "Hanoi" only in 1831, as the article says. So, the date for the founding should either be 1831, or whatever founding date of Dai La can be found ... since Dai La could be considered as kind of the predecessor. Stefanhanoi 17:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

1010 is significant in Hanoi history because it's the year that it becomes the capital of Vietnam. Before that, I think it's just a citadel and not inhabited my many people. DHN 03:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I do not deny that 1010 has "some" significance, but it should not be mentioned as the founding year of "Hanoi" in the box to the right. Problem is, I don't know what better date to use.

Next, I think Dai La (and thus a settlement that is now called "Hanoi") was already before 1010 capital of an independent Vietnam, and was populated also in that time. I quote from Nguyen Vinh Phuc in "Hanoi - Past and Present" (The Gioi, 2201), page 44ff: "In the middle of the fifth century (454-456), Hanoi [sic] was recorded as the centre of Tong Binh district which later became a province. ... The seat of government of [Chinese province of] Tong Binh was in the urban area of present Hanoi." This would mean that there was a sigificant settlement at least in the middle of the fifth century, if not already earlier.

Regarding Hanoi being the first time the capital of an independent Vietnam: "In 544. Ly Bi ... built a fortress by the To Lich River [i.e. present day Hanoi area]. After defeating the Liang invaders, he proclaimed himself King ... Thereafter, his nephew, Ly Phat Tu moved the capital to Co Loa ..." Where did Ly Bi rule his independent Vietnam, if not from where the administration was up to his victory (i.e. the administration of Tong Binh within present day Hanoi), or in his fortress (also within present day Hanoi)?

http://www.bvom.com/resource/vn_history.asp?pContent=Ancient_Time writes "In 544, Ly Bon proclaimed himself Emperor of the Southern (Nam De), and named the country Van Xuan, the Capital situated in Hanoi now."

Bottom Line:

1) 1010 is maybe the year when the first time a Vietnamese emperor moved the capital to what is now Hanoi - usually, the Vietnamese moved it away, e.g. to Co Loa or to Hoa Luu, and the Chinese moved it back again to Dai La.

2) It is not possible to give a founding date for "Hanoi", since Hanoi was never founded. Hanoi is the name of a number of settlements, each with their own founding date.

Stefanhanoi 13:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery

The Gallery of images is a fantastic resource. It really compliments the article. LordHarris 17:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)Great work on the gallery.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Logo Hà Nội.jpg

Image:Logo Hà Nội.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] external links

What's with the External Link nazi-ism that has been going on lately on this article? first someone plain wipes the whole section, next thing someone thinks only photo links should go by some sort of policy, then something else, ... Read and understand the policy, folks. I'm sure we all agree that commercial links and non-informative pages and product promotion are not for Wikipedia, but nothing is to say we can't have helpful links of other sorts. Wikipedia is meant to be fun, informative, and helpful. Photo links help a LOT, if they are true and fairly complete, in helping the viewer truly see the place through a distant pair of eyes if they can't go there themselves. Photography is factual and a picture is worth a thousand words. There are also fantastic photography out there that truly capture the atmosphere of a place but are unfortunately copyrighted -- there is nothing wrong at all in linking to a copyrighted source. Take it easy, folks. Please discuss. I find the External Links to be one of the most helpful sections of Wikipedia when done nicely and completely. 18.62.31.230 (talk) 18:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a Web portal, nor a search engine. There are other (better) ways to get that kind of information if you need it. --Nlu (talk) 20:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia Guidelines on external links: "This section is for linking to websites with significant and reliable additional information on an article's topic." Let's not be so hasty when removing OR adding. Darth Twit (talk) 06:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Logo Hà Nội.jpg

Image:Logo Hà Nội.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 13:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Images in article

The images appearing in Hanoi#Geography should be fixed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.233.77.185 (talk) 12:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)