Talk:Hamza Yusuf
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[edit] POV
Wikipedia does not exist to propagandize for religious teachers. The article as it stands is fawning and non-neutral.
I'm so swamped at the moment that I don't know if I'll have time to try to edit it down to something NPOV. It would be nice if someone else could do it.
I should perhaps add that from what I've seen and read of Hamza Yusuf, I'd probably like the guy. My comments aren't based on prejudice, but on a belief that we have to be completely even-handed. Zora 05:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, THB, for the good edits. The article is sufficiently toned-down that I think we can remove the notice. Are you done? I'll let you remove the notice. Zora 22:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
POV removed after minor edits. I am not familiar with this person so if there is a lot of criticism of him or something someone else will have to add it. I only removed the gushing. THB 23:04, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
- So far as I know, he's not particularly controversial. He's a traditionalist Sunni Muslim, not a Salafi, not a New Age-y Sufi. That is, he has avoided the extremes that converts sometimes adopt. Zora 23:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I think the article at its stands in reasonably neutral, but still I would like to make it more fact based. It appears to be moulded around the original Biography of Shaykh Hamza on the Zaytuna website. If I get time I could redraft certain parts of it, within the next week.
One another point to add, though Mr. Hanson has become a pacifist, he in the past has not been neutral on the issue sorrounding Israel and Americas support towards it. It is after 9/11 that Mr.Hanson has made a 180 turn for the better.
Pacifism, a turn for the better? Is that relevant to anything?
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- The entire controversy part is baloney. Other than being supported by Daniel Pipes, it has no factual basis. The entire section is biased and unverifiable. It has to be fixed.
There is actually significant controversy around some of Sh. Hamza Yusuf's more moderate positions, and there is particular discomfort amongst selafi/wahabi circles to any philosophizing about heaven, sex, spirituality. They would claim that he's a closet sufi, and have taken to "warning" people about him, as his presentations of islam and jihad are in conflict with theirs. A quote from a well-distributed email critique of Hamza Yusuf by Yusuf Estes reads (in part) as follows:
"There are others involved in this "Sufi" movement as well. I have not sat with them personally nor have they corresponded with me. However, I can assure you that the teachings coming from their sources have serious errors in them and could even be considered leading out of Islam completely.
All this time, this groups such as "sufees" And "Shiites" and "Nation of Islam" and "Ahmadiyyans" and "Rastafarians" and "Moorish Science Temple" and "Ansar Allah" and "Five Percenters" and "Submitters International" are actually doing the thing that you are complaining against me: They are dividing up the Muslims through their various cults and tareeqahs. We ask everyone to come together and unify according to what Allah has ordered us in the first place, and that is to unify under the Quran and the Sunnah. "
Which essentially summarizes the anti-Hamza Yusuf position- that EVERYTHING but their way is deviation. For the vast majority of muslims however, lumping sufis and shiites with these other groups is preposterous. So there most definitely is controversy. The radical view of islam is not compatible with the moderate one...
the vast majority of Muslims in the Muslim world are sufis. i suppose you've been totally brainwashed by your Salafi/Wahabi shaykhs.
Most studies of world religion will show you fairly clearly that Sufis, while influential in the Muslim world, are a minority and are nowhere near the majority, i.e. 50% or more. As for controversey, yes, he does have some surrounding him. I think every article about prominent public figures should have a section for opposing views for the sake of balance and if it makes things quicker I can find some sources for the criticism that can be added to the article. MezzoMezzo 13:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] More Random thoughts
"radical view of Islam". I thought there was only one view and that was Allah's and his Messangers (SAW) view. Correct me if i am wrong. B.AlAmin
[edit] Sufi
Sheikh Hamza denies being a Sufi. without further proof that he IS one, then, the listing that he is a Sufi must be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Munawarali (talk • contribs) 17:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
