Talk:Hamilton College

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] stray comments

I added a lot of numbers. I got them all from [1]. Is this a possible copyright infringement? I don't think it would be, but I want to be safe -- Quinwound 01:07, Mar 9, 2004 (UTC)

--- Mere "facts" are never eligible for copyright protection. If all you used are statistics, don't sweat it. Nobody has a monopoly on the facts. -- 17:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger with Kirkland College

The description of Kirkland's closure and absorption into Hamilton College is somewhat misleading. I was on campus when the merger was announced and after it concluded. I do not remember any "sit-in" at the President's office -- it could have occurred, but if it did, it was minor and short-lived. Among Hamilton's students at the time, at least half were happy to see Kirkland go. The idea of an all-male institution had become an anachronism, and many Hamilton undergrads desired a better co-educational experience, as most other college campuses already offered by this time. The differing educational philosophies of liberal Kirkland and tradtional Hamilton had also been a frequent source of conflict. Kirkland suffered also because women were becoming more career-minded in the 1970s, and the artsy, no-grades-given academic atmosphere at Kirkland was beginning to fall from favor among young women. Following the announcement of the merger, the Hamilton student government remained officially neutral on the subject and even voted down a resolution that would have opposed the merger. Rehnquist 18:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ward Churchill and similar issues

I'm wondering if it makes sense to include items like the Ward Churchill controversy in an article of this type. While this is news now, there have been events like this in the past, and it seems like this opens the doors to including other past embarrassments and triumphs that are not listed in the history (events like the rededication of the Oneida chief’s grave in 1998, and the firing of a professor associated with the raelians in 2001 spring to mind). It seems like such information while important when they happened, have quickly faded in importance. For any institution of such age it seems there would be 1000's of such events. Listing them all would only serve as a distraction.--Ahc 14:44, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think events like this should appear in the article, but should be properly contextualized as time passes. As the Churchill flap fades, it should appear perhaps as a sentence or two near the end, in a "trivia" or "history" section of some sort. If there really are thousands of more important or interesting events in the college's history, if some are added to the article they will crowd out the lesser events. --Kevin Myers 15:28, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
I'm still not sure I agree. It's not that there are 1000's of more important events, just similar events. Should an encyclopedia article contain lots of triva? --Ahc 04:44, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
In an attempt to find the right balance here between providing information and not making it sound like it's critical to the school's history, I added a section for campus speakers. I've been thinking about this anyway to add in the Great Names speakers so I figured this was a good time. I also edited the paragraph some, most notably I removed the two links to media sources since they both were as much about UC as Hamilton, and both are already fairly out of date. I would suggest the NYT piece from a couple days ago, but it will only be active for 2 weeks, and just posting the rebuttal from Hamilton seems biased. --Ahc 05:27, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Nicely done! Perhaps no external links are needed, since the Churchill link will probably give readers all the info they'll need. --Kevin Myers 15:25, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
Rather than detracting from the page, I think adding events like this (what one called "trivia") from Hamilton's history add breadth and depth to the topic. And isn't that what an encyclopedia is about? As an alumnus, I love adding recollections about historical events (e.g. Kirkland merger), which give a flavor you'll never find on their official site. --Stew Stryker '81 - 22:07, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This "trivia" is not the stuff of an encyclopedia. If such minor facts of transient importance ARE relevant for such purposes, then the most important "minor" fact has been ignored altogether: the previous president of the college -- which has a deep longstanding tradition of adherence to an academic honor code -- was forced to resign his position in a plagarism scandal. No mention is made of this sad episode inolving Gene Tobin. As an institution this event was far more damaging to the soul than the kerfuffle over that ridiculous Ward Churchill appearance. Rehnquist 19:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I think an Events Timeline (perhaps one similiar in form to the Livejournal Timeline) would be a good solution to this problem. All the bits of information that seemed important and interesting could be added to the timeline, but they wouldn't dominate the entry's focus on the college itself.

Okay, it's been nearly a year since we first debated this section and I'd like to bring this back up. Both in the context of Rehnquist's statements almost a month ago, and also the editing the paragraph has been going through the last few days. Seems like this should be pushed to the trivia section at best. In its place a short listing of speakers that have come to the Hill in somewhat recent years (say the last 10-15?) that show a diversity of view points. --Ahc 00:28, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. --Rehnquist 18:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Campus Names

With reference to the History section: As a current Hamilton student (sophomore in '05-06), I I have *NEVER* heard any part of campus referred to as 'Stryker.' The vast majority of the time, the two sides are simply Dark Side and Light Side, or in administrator's terms, North and South. I feel that this statement should be revised, but--for any alums who may be looking at this, have you heard it called as such before? Thoughts on removing it? --- ~Lord Apolon 00:13, Jun 7, 2005

Admitedly the Stryker reference has fallen mostly from the campus lexicon. But as a member of '01 I heard the term frequently when working in C&D and from Alumni. It was also still on several campus maps, and could be found from time to time in literature from the Pres. office. As an alum I still hear the term from other (mostly older) alumni. Light Side was the common term among the student body. --Ahc 19:23, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

--- "Styker" is the name given to Hamilton's main campus upon the absorption of Kirkland College in 1978. The school now had two campuses and had to come up with some label other than "Hamilton" for what had been, since 1812, the Hamilton campus. I believe Stryker is still the official name, but it was never in favor among students. THe Kirkland campus contiunued to be called "Kirkland" and what is the Stryker campus was called a number of pet names, from THE Hamilton campus, the "Main" campus or north campus. Rehnquist 17:21, 12 January 2006 (UTC) --As a current student, it seems the College has adopted "North Campus" for Stryker and "South Campus" for Kirkland. 150.209.41.22 02:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] President's Salary

Why is the President of Hamilton College the highest paid in the nation?

where did you read that? --walter

-- The assertion is NOT true. The error may have been caused by a confusing headline in a Syracuse newspaper back in November: President who quit remains highest-paid at Hamilton Monday, November 28, 2005 link. As the article states, Hamilton's president makes a few hundred thou a year, far below the million-dollars plus now paid out at several other schools. Rehnquist 17:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts on Layout

I think the introduction should be expanded. It needs to be spiced up a bit, with an interesting bit on Hamilton's history, mention of important alumni, professors, and departments, and maybe a mention to the school's architecture, or at least some pictures. I also don't think the introduction should cite the U.S. News & World Report ranking.

Certain sections also could use a little revising. The "Academics" part would be better off as a link at the bottom of the page to Hamilton College - Academics because it takes up a lot of space and the school's webpage has a better discussion of what's offered. The "History" section has the potential to be very interesting, but it needs some more work. Off the top of my head, I think Kirkland needs more attention. The "Campus life" section seems to me like a mix of people's good intentions, but it lacks focus. Every little part seems to be competing for attention. Also, I think the "Songs of the College" rightful place is in Wikisource. --Wschoen 02:43, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

There is some very interesting early history that is missed. For example, Kirkland's mission to the Onedia Indians is barely mentioned. That is how the school got started. There was a feverish competition to get the "Hamilton-Oneida Acedemy" chartered as a college. Union College (in Schendectady) had already been chartered, and there was concern at the time that the New York legislature would not grant more than one more college charter in the upstate region (Cornell, I think, came along about 50 years later). This is how Alexander Hamilton became a trustee and became the adopted namesake of the institution. A very early example of using celebrity name recognition for political causes, once Hamilton agreed to be a trustee, the school had a virtual lock on getting the college charter. Rehnquist 17:49, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tweaked Layout per Previous Comment

I added a "See Also" section, and inserted a pointer to the two new pages I made for the songs of the college. This was inspired by the previous comments about layout from Wschoen. I basically agree with all the points Wschoen made. Kblakes 04:32, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Alumni lists

The section listing notable alumni is beginning to expand beyond its proper focus and purpose -- which is to give readers not familiar with the institution a glimpse of the lofty achievements that are possible when equipped with a Hamilton education. It is entirely fitting and proper, for example, to list Nobel Prize recipients, award winning writers/artists/musicians, major inventors, legendary scientists and educators, top executives of well-known companies, and top elected officials and appointees of national or regional prominence. Some recent contributors, however, have added alumni names to these lists that do not really serve its purpose or contribute something new to Hamilton's reputation for excellence. No reader would care, for instance, if the state treasurer of Ohio, a senior v-p at Bank of America, or the undersec'y of the Navy happen to be graduates of the college. Hamilton has had so many successful grads in its 200-year existence, that any enlargement of the list to mention such alumni achievements could easily overtake the entire article here. Thus, this listing of notable alumni should be kept to a select, illustrative and illustriative few. Comments?

I agree that the list of notable alumni is getting too large for the article. However, I think it's an interesting factual resource, quite suitable for the wikipedia. I propose, therefore, that we do what they've done on the Williams College page. That is, instead of including a list of alums on the main page of the article about the college, have a separate page (see List of Williams College people) devoted to just the list of notable alums. If we had a page devoted to a list of alums, we could greatly expand our list to include as many notable alums as we can think of. It would be difficult to establish firm criteria for qualifying to be on the list: I would advocate a very ecumenical policy at first.Kblakes 03:44, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree both with the concern, and the suggested solution of a new page. --Ahc 14:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I concur with the suggestion, and will begin steps to create a new article for this prupose that links to the main Hamilton College entry. I've lloked at the List of Williams College people and think that makes a good layout template, at least for starters. --Rehnquist 16:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

As suggested by several contributors, a new Wiki article has been created under the heading List of Hamilton College people and the entire listing of "famous" alumni has been moved there, which should be able to accommodate many more entries. The list was deleted from the Hamilton College article here and replaced with a brief descriptive paragrpah with a link to the new article. The heading here has also been renamed "Alumni Achievements." (Hope I did this all correctly.) Comments are welcome. --Rehnquist 17:20, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Outstanding!--Kblakes 03:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Notwithstanding this discussion and the creation of a List of Hamilton College people Wiki article, someone has reestablished a "Notable people" section in the main Hamilton College article. That section has rapidly grown, recreating the very problem that had been previously identified and solved as discussed above. Indeed, the list in the "Notable people" section now is similar in length to the list in the List of Hamilton College people article. An additional problem is that the contents of the two lists are not identical. In any event, as the "Notable people" section is unnecessary in light of the separate List of Hamilton College people article, I will delete that section. If some of the names listed in that section are not currently included in the List of Hamilton College people article, others would have the option of adding those names to that article. 75.31.98.66 23:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hamilton College, Scotland

With the addition of Hamilton College, Scotland section, it seems like we need to make sure that gets split off to its own article. My only question is do we want to create a Hamilton College, United States to avoid a bias in the naming convention, or just add a disambiguity link to the top of the article? --Ahc 16:21, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a name change is necessary - this is the main Hamilton College, the Scotland one is just a high school. But I agree that it deserves its own article. --DVD Smith 22:32, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I would recommend a disambiguation page. (I haven't checked, but there probably already is a disambiguation page for "Hamilton.") It may be worth noting that there is also a trade school operating in the midwest under a competing "Hamilton College" brand name. (How did that happen?) I didn't find a Wiki entry for this other school yet, but there is at least one Wiki stub under the listing for "Professional Business and Technical Colleges" in Iowa. --Rehnquist 18:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
The midwest Hamilton College is an accredited college. It's named after Ward Hamilton, the school's founder. It started about 100 years ago as a business school, and has evolved beyond the technical school status. It grants 2- and 4-year degrees, and in partnership with Kaplan (the parent corp) has masters programs, too. I personally wouldn't recommend it to anyone, as it's a for-profit school that charges quite high tuition and delivers very little in the way of student life, no sports, clubs, etc., has no Senate or Faculty organization, and some of the worst television commercials (think really bad used-car ads). Their reputation, at least in the Cedar Rapids, Iowa (main "campus" - 1 small building) is not very good, and their administration is focused on profit, not student success. That being said, they are accredited, so I'd like to see a disambiguation page. I did add a disambiguation link at the top of the 'real' Hamilton College page. (I'm from Upstate NY, about 15 miles from Hamilton College. I'm also an alum of the midwestern Hamilton - also known as scamilton or shamilton in in this area.) averagejoe 17:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Is anyone going to work on this? 82.40.75.55 21:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

A search for Hamilton High School returns a disambiguation page listing several dozen schools. We could make a more broad disambiguation page (perhaps merging all Hamilton references together) but it seems to me that this would be more hinderance than help to individuals seeking info. I suppose we could put a tag at the top of the Hamilton College page directing towards the tech school (i.e. This page is about the liberal arts college. For the Iowa tech school of the same name...blah blah blah) but I don't really think it's necassary. Then again, I'm an alum of the New York school so I might be biased. If there is support for a clarifying remark, I'll gladly add it, but it doesn't seem to me that the current set up is too confusing. rorsach 18:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other notable Hamiltonia

Would anyone here care to help improve other Alexander Hamilton related sites? Hamiltonian economic program Could use some work, and I am sure there are others. As the most underrated founding father, his articles could use some work.--Niro5 21:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fight song, lyrics

This was on the main entry for Hamilton, but seems like it ought to be given (at the very least) more appropriate context, and perhaps its own page. The alma mater has its own Wikipedia entry, so perhaps the fight song should get one with the lyrics, as well?

"Addition: The lyrics to the Hamilton College fight song are as follows. The sentences and words have been broken up to indicate the phrasing (as well as Wikipedia will allow). I remember the tune but don't have the skills to write it in standard musical notation. This is how I remember it from circa 1961-64:
"Ha-mil-ton, Thy sons will ne'er forget thee. Ha-mil-ton, If trouble e'er beset thee, We will fight With all our might For Ha-mil-ton. On the day our alma mater calls us, We'll fight on no matter what befalls us. We pledge our name To uphold the fame Of Ha-mil-ton!"

--Julian Grybowski 02:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Carissima already has its own page. There is a link there for this as well, but it just redirects to the main college page. If people feel it's worth having in, I'd suggest someone go ahead and create an article for it. --Ahc 14:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] (Separate) Thoughts on Rugby and Societies

--- Is it possible to add something about the rugby teams? They haven't been mentioned, and for some reason the edit I made was reverted. They are becoming much more serious, and something should be said about the men making it to the National Rugby Union Collegiate Division III Final Four - this was a huge deal.

Also, someone removed Kappa Delta Omega from the list of sororities, presumably because it is supposed to be secret. I don't think there's any reason for that removal, especially since other semi-secret societies are listed (like PBX, Psi U, and Chi Psi), as well as the true underground ones like Sigma Phi, Was Los, and Pentagon. (All of the Greek societies are all listed at [2] ) --68.199.88.67 (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

      Was Los and Pentagon underground? hardly, they are school-sponsored honor societies.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.129.42 (talk) 19:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] added reference for "highly selective"

I added the reference for the "highly selective." i'm sure the hamilton admissions office will love it. but you guys just can't make a bunch of fluffy claims without references. perhaps you should look at the Williams College entry for an example of shameless use of the word "selective," but with references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.133.211 (talk • contribs)

Thanks for replacing that link. It actually had been present before, I'm not sure when it got removed, I haven't been paying much attention recently. I haven't seen much sign that the Hamilton Admissions office has looked this page over, or if they have, they haven't done a great deal of editing. And like many articles, you'll notice this one is littered with marks where citations are needed, the lack of references is a long standing problem that needs to be fixed. --Ahc 20:13, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] College Statistics Section Needs New Reference

The title says it all, no? Try following citation #7 and verifying the data. I suppose the data is no longer posted on the college's website, or at least to where the link is pointing. This section *needs* data to support it. If someone can't find the data, the information has got to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.209.150.223 (talk) 03:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

In the infobox, it stays 183 "staff" -- since this almost certainly refers to faculty and should mirror other college's infoboxes, I am changing it to faculty. GG The Fly (talk) 19:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)