Talk:Hamid Karzai/Archive1

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[edit] CNN: Karzai and Unocal?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/12/karzai/index.html

If CNN is saying that Karzai was a Unocal lobbyist, then I'd believe it.

According to columnist Ted Rall, Karzai used to be on the board of Unicoal. Given Unicoal's interest in the trans-Afghanistan pipeline, this then becomes a very relevant piece of information. However, an opinion columnist ain't a primo source. Anyone have better info on the topic? -- April


The article mentions Karzai becoming president December 5, 2001 but the table shows him becoming president December 22, 2001. Which date is correct? Flockmeal 02:47, Jan 9, 2004 (UTC)

Never mind, the date issue is resolved. Flockmeal 23:29, Jan 9, 2004 (UTC)

Have Le Monde and Moore admitted that the Unocal claim is erroneous? If not, I don't think we can call it "erroneous" just because Unocal denies it. Gzornenplatz 21:47, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

No, not to my knowledge - but who seriously expects them to? Anyway, it's hard to believe Unocal is lying; these things are easy to verify if true, given the paper trail in hiring anyone. No such evidence has been presented. And, Karzai's own spokesman denied the rumor [1]. The assertion is no more credible than the rumor that Osama bin Laden owns Citibank, and may similarly be a "mix-up" (a confusion with the ambassador who had worked for Unocal). VV[[]] 22:24, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Well, I wouldn't expect Unocal or Karzai to admit it either. There doesn't have to be a public paper trail. So let's just say the claim has been made and it has been denied, without making a judgment. Gzornenplatz 22:47, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)
Why on earth would you not expect them to admit it? It's not like there even can be a big secret about who someone's employees are. This is nothing but another cheap smear, and the wording you're using seems like it's trying to give it credibility it does not possess. VV[[]] 19:21, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I think there could easily be a secret about it, especially if the CIA was involved in all this too [2]. In any case, the wording is factual and lets everyone decide for themselves who they trust more - Le Monde and Moore, or Unocal and Karzai. Le Monde is not exactly famous as a source of "cheap smears", and if they stand by their report, we should report that without proclaiming it "erroneous". Gzornenplatz 20:50, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Unocal question continued

i'm cutting/pasting the best lead i've found so far (just a quick search, but it seems relevant): http://www.worldwar3report.com/18.html#shadows1 18. Jan.. 26, 2002 By Bill Weinberg

1. WAS KARZAI A UNOCAL CONSULTANT? France's Le Monde newspaper wrote in a Dec. 5 profile of Hamid Karzai that the Afghan interim president "has a wide knowledge of the western world. After studying law in Kabul and India, he completed his training in the United States where he was for a time a consultant for the American oil company Unocal, when it was studying the construction of a pipeline in Afghanistan."
This claim was reiterated in the Jan. edition of Le Monde Diplomatique, where Pierre Abramovici http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/abramovici.html wrote that "during the negotiations over the Afghan oil pipeline, Karzai had been a consultant for Unocal."
The claim also surfaced in the Saudi newspaper Al-Watan, which reported Dec. 15: "Karzai found no contradiction between his ties with the Americans and his support for the Taliban movement as of 1994, when the Americans had--secretly and through the Pakistanis--supported the Taliban's assumption of power... At the time, Karzai worked as a consultant for the huge US oil group Unocal, which had supported the Taliban movement and sought to construct a pipeline to transport oil and gas from the Islamic republics of Central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan." (BBC Monitoring Service, Dec. 15)
The Le Monde article was jumped upon by numerous media outlets--particularly lefty e-newsletters--who cited it as truth, without raising questions about the article's un-named source, or bothering to get a quote from Unocal (e.g., Tom Turnipseed in Counterpunch, Jan. 10; Ted Rall, < www.rall.com>, Jan 15). But when WW3 REPORT reached Unocal Manager for International Communication Teresa Covington at the company's Houston headquarters on Jan. 25, and asked if Hamid Karzai had ever worked for the firm, she replied: "No he did not. Neither as an employee or a consultant. We sent Le Monde a note asking them to correct that."
This raises numerous questions. Why has Le Monde not run a correction? Was Karzai's work laundered through sub-contractors? And, if so, why is Unocal trying to hide it? Why hasn't it been more widely reported?
The most probing account appeared by Wayne Madsen http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html on the web page of Canada's Centre for Research on Globalisation Jan. 23. Wrote Madsen: "According to Afghan, Iranian, and Turkish government sources, Hamid Karzai, the interim Prime Minister of Afghanistan, was a top adviser to the...UNOCAL Corporation which was negotiating with the Taliban to construct a Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline from Turkmenistan through western Afghanistan to Pakistan." Madsen also claims Karzai "maintained close relations with CIA Director William Casey, Vice President George Bush, and their Pakistani Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) interlocutors" during the Mujahedeen war. "Later, Karzai and a number of his brothers moved to the United States under the auspices of the CIA. Karzai continued to serve the agency's interests, as well as those of the Bush Family and their oil friends in negotiating the CentGas deal, according to Middle East and South Asian sources."
Madsen maintains that "Karzai's ties with UNOCAL and the Bush administration are the main reason why the CIA pushed him for Afghan leader over rival Abdul Haq, the assassinated former mujaheddin leader from Jalalabad, and the leadership of the Northern Alliance, seen by Langley as being too close to the Russians and Iranians." He also sees a possible CIA conspiracy to eliminate Haq to clear the way for Karzai: "Former Reagan National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane, who worked with Haq, vainly attempted to get the CIA to help rescue Haq. The agency claimed it sent a remotely-piloted armed drone to attack the Taliban but its actions were too little and too late. Some observers in Pakistan claim the CIA tipped off the ISI about Haq's journey and the Pakistanis, in turn, informed the Taliban. McFarlane, who runs a K Street oil consulting firm, did not comment on further questions about the circumstances leading to the death of Haq."
Madsen, like Le Monde, fails to share his sources. WW3 REPORT will continue to monitor this story, and urges all subscribers to report back with any leads.

i'm not sure what fails to share his sources means - if it just means that madsen didn't publish a bibliography in his article, then it's not a strong argument that he's wrong, it can simply be that he's lazy. If someone's really interested in this (chance to show that michael moore, among others, are definitely wrong on one fact, not just maybe wrong!), emailing madsen would probably help. He says According to Afghan, Iranian, and Turkish government sources, Hamid Karzai, the interim Prime Minister of Afghanistan, was a top adviser to the El Segundo, California-based UNOCAL Corporation.... He can surely explain a bit more about his access to three independent government sources - why would government sources from Iran and Turkey be embarrassed about talking about Karzai's cv? Hmm.... Anyway, nice to know that wikipedia people are collectively double-checking, triple-checking on this sort of thing. :) Boud 02:50, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about the CIA, but when a firm pays someone as a consultant, they are often not on the payroll. It's much different than actually hiring a salaried employee.


[edit] Election of 2004

in a tally based on 98.4 percent of total votes cast, the U.S.-backed Karzai had 55.5 percent, which was 39 percentage points ahead of his closest challenger, former Education Minister Yunus Qanooni. [3]

[edit] Question about links in place of birth

Under his picture, it says his place of birth is "Karz village, Qandahar" but Qandahar is the capital of Kandahar province, so shouldnt the link be Kandahar (linking to the page Kandahar province, not Qandahar (province) since that is not a province) --AlexTheMartian 21:01, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

I fixed the redirect of Qandahar (province) to link to Kandahar province. BCKILLa 00:28, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Anger

this is stupid. if someone does'nt like hamid karzai or doesnt like how the article was written, you could have don done something constructive about but no, someone just erased the whole article. it's just crazy and self-centered.

Sometimes people erase whole articles, just because they can. It's okay; it's relatively easy to undo. Someone usually fixes the change within five minutes, so no problem. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 03:02, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

fix fix fix

[edit] Lemonde.fr links to us

  • Lemonde.fr: At the moment (December 21, 2004), Lemonde.fr links to the English version of Wikipedia's biography of Hamid Karzai. Good for us, that it calls us ¨le site d'une encyclopédie (en anglais)" (an encyclopedia's website, in English), but it shows us that our French translation leaves a lot to be desired. Andrew pmk 20:12, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Little bit of misinformation

"Several sources, most notably the documentary film Fahrenheit 9/11, have reported that Karzai once worked as a consultant for the oil company Unocal." Since when is Farenheit a "DOCUMENTARY"? It's my understanding that a documentary film is factual. I would suggest this word be removed from the text as Moore's movie was not truthful. [4]

  • Many documentaries have a point of view. that is not unusual. Kingturtle 23:02, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm not questioning his point of view, I'm questioning whether a movie can be called a documentary if it distorts reality.
Are there movies that don’t distory reality? -Ahruman 11:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

NOT truthful?? What colour is the sky in your world? Ann Coulter red???

[edit] The para it too much

Pl don't take this as a personal attack or something of that kind But i could like to point out,it seems to me;Hamid Karzai is hypocrite.As the following paragraph says so. "When the Taliban emerged onto the political scene in the 1990s, Karzai was initially among their supporters. However, as with many other early Taliban supporters, he broke with the Taliban, citing distrust of their links to Pakistan. After the Taliban drove Rabbani out of Kabul in 1996, Karzai refused to serve as their U.N. ambassador. Karzai lived in exile in Quetta, Pakistan where he worked to reinstate Zahir Shah." Yousaf465

[edit] Restaurant chain

The only Bay Area restaurant I know named "Afghani House" is in Sunnyvale, and is not part of the Karzais' chain. Their SF location is, as far as I know, also called Helmand. Can anyone locate a link that says otherwise? Auros 21:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Why are references to Helmand restaurant there in the first place ? Is it because these restaurants are owned by Mr. Karzai's older brothers. This is not a place for free publicity. They should be removed.

[edit] "Other information" section was removed

05:37, 12 June 2007 220.235.0.239 (Talk) (15,651 bytes) (→Other information) (undo) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hamid_Karzai&oldid=137620713 User page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/220.235.0.239 Talk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:220.235.0.239

The "other information" section was removed by this user. I added it back since I don't see anything on this talk page about removing such information -- I will add back due to WP:Assume Good Faith and WP:Editing Policy (" If you make deletions, you should try to explain why you delete their contributions in the article talk page. This could reduce the possibility of reverting wars and unnecessary arguments. So, whatever you do, try to preserve information."). Here's a link to the last version of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hamid_Karzai&oldid=137365360

I do agree though with the user who ended up removing it, that the section itself should be be integrated into other parts of the article though --- though the the information should not be wholly removed (eg., the UNOCAL information is in popular culture now due to Fahrenheit 911 and it would be very odd to not mention it on Karzai's WP page). 99.245.173.200 22:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] is Karzai married? Divorced? Widower? Bachelor?

Just out of curiosity, is Karzai married? Divorced? Widower? Bachelor? I've never read anything about his immediate famly. Is it kept hush-hush for their safety? Kingturtle 01:42 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

A short Google short brought the answer: Karzai is married, his wife is called Zinat, and a doctor by profession. They were married in 1998 and have no children. Andre Engels 18:11, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)


[edit] The Story of Karzai's Experience During the 2001 / 2002 American invasion is an Interesting one

Karzai took part in the fight to oust the Taliban in 2001 / 2002 with a force of Afghans fighters embedded with U.S. special forces and the story of his unit is a very interesting one. It would make a nice addition to this article. Karzai showed a lot of bravery as did the Afghan and American soldiers who fought alongside him.

71.208.230.97 14:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Politics

This article lacks information on what kind of politics he is running and what plans he have for the future, it would be nice if someone who knows more about this could add some. Does he support womens rights? How is is economic policies? Does he represent a political party? Passw0rd

[edit] Corruption?

I'm surprised there isn't anything about allegations of corruption in the article. A Google search for "Karzai corruption" gives pause for thought. --RenniePet (talk) 04:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Find a reliable source that addresses the claim, and add it to this article citing the source. Kingturtle (talk) 05:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, yes, I know how it works. But my own knowledge is minimal (just rumors I hear from Danish journalists) and my level of interest is not sufficient that I feel like investing time on researching it myself. My posting was intended as encouragement to anyone else who is more interested in the subject. There must be some background reasons why the situation in Afghanistan seems to be deteriorating instead of improving (although my knowledge is so limited I'm not even sure that is an accurate assesment). --RenniePet (talk) 12:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
How's this for a coincidence? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7222194.stm
"... they (the Taliban) do not control the roads nor the towns, but they hold the countryside and have increasing support because of the corruption of the administration." (my emphasis added)
--RenniePet (talk) 18:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
The corruption is committed by the opposition groups to Karzai, his article should be left out from all that which will provoke edit-war here between different ethnic groups of Afghanistan. This article is dedicated to the person Hamid Karzai so don't involve the situation to him, it was Bush and America that started the war in Afghanistan. According to latest Afghan News, only about 4 (insluding Musa Qala) districts remained in Taliban control. The remaining 394 are in control of Afghanistan's government. The only critizm allowed in this article is one that personally involves him... others I will quickly remove.--203.175.65.191 (talk) 18:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of content sourced with The Washington Post

Why was this line removed from the Former Taliban supporter section? It is from a new article from the Washington Post which is a well respected publication.

---

On August 20, 1998, after an attempt by the United States to kill Osama bin Laden with a cruise missile, Karzai praised the Taliban saying,

“ ...there were many wonderful people in the Taliban. ”

Source:Two Myths About Afghanistan - The Washington Post

I added it back in. -- Esemono (talk) 14:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Please also replace the quotes with the cquote template. DurraniPashtun (talk) 17:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] French-speaker?

Hamid Karzai does not speak French. Someone should remove that false fact. DurraniPashtun (talk) 17:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I added a citation that supports the claim. Kingturtle (talk) 17:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Image:Karzai at Parliament Hill.jpg has just been uploaded to Wikipedia Commons. Please integrate it into the article. Thanks. -- Reaper X 00:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)