Talk:Hamantash

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Contents 1 Homentash vs. Hamantash vs. Hamantasch 2 Cheese Hamantaschen 3 Origins of name 4 not a "cookie"

[edit] Homentash vs. Hamantash vs. Hamantasch

For most of this article's existence, the main title was "Hamantash" or "Hamantasch." Redaktor changed the title to "Homentash." Thousands of websites refer to this cookie as "Hamantash" or "Hamantasch," while far fewer call it "Homentash." I think it should be changed. Poldy Bloom 04:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I changed the title to "Hamantasch" as a common spelling. Then, I began steps (with administrator help) to change the title to "Hamantash," which seems to be the most common spelling. If you change it back to "Homentsh" or if you ask the administrator to do so, please provide a more detailed and reasoned explanation why here, and let's have a discussion among the community. Thanks. Poldy Bloom 05:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cheese Hamantaschen

I added cheese as a flavour of fillings for hamantaschen. It was deleted because the person had never heard of cheese as a filling for hamantaschen. I have been eating cheese hamantaschen, which my Mom buys from a bakery, every year for as long as I can remember. If you search for cheese hamantaschen on Yahoo or Google you will see a lot of recipes for it. It exists and my tastebuds are very gratfeul for that. Jami86e 06:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I put it back, since apparently "cheese hamantaschen" do exist. It seems rare, though, based on the number of Google hits it gets. I also added in a reference for it.--DLand^TALK 12:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Jami86e 19:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of name

Before Redaktor changed "Hamantasch" to "Homentash" throughout the article, the origins of the name were attributed to "Haman's pocket." Redaktor changed the article to read, "The name homentashn is a corruption of Yiddish: מאן־טאשן montashn, German: mohntaschen, meaning poppyseed cakes." Does anyone have any evidence of this linguistic provenance? Can someone provide a legitimate printed (i.e. non-internet) source? If so, please add a footnote to the article. By the way, "mohn" does mean poppyseed in German, but "taschen" means "pockets," not "cakes." (The German word for cake is "Kuchen.") I am going to change the article to reflect the two possible origins of the name. The montashn theory may be more correct from a scholarly point of view (and I don't know if it is), but the Haman's pocket theory is the most commonly believed. So, I think it is best to present them both. Poldy Bloom 04:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

http://seforim.blogspot.com/2008/03/origins-of-hamentashen-in-jewish.html extensively quotes Jewish literature, in the original Hebrew, as to the source of the custom. I tried to insert this link into the page, but the automated bot removed it. 213.151.63.239 (talk) 18:48, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] not a "cookie"

it is definitely not a "cookie" but does fit the definition of a small pie Haim Berman 15:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I think pastry is the best description.--DLand^TALK 15:22, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read the definitions of both pastry and pie. Pastry is the more general term, and includes pie. Since hamantash fits the narrower definition of pie, it should be described as such, rather than using the more general term which is vaguer (less informative). ( ( Haim Berman 15:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC) ) )

While a hamantash might not be a cookie, it is definitely not a pie. If common sense isn't enough to convince you, the Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines "pie" as:

"a baked food having a filling of fruit, meat, pudding, etc., prepared in a pastry-lined pan or dish and often topped with a pastry crust: apple pie; meat pie."

I encourage you to produce a source that describes a hamantash as a pie, but I doubt you will be successful.--DLand^TALK 15:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The pie definition which you quote above does include hamantash — no surprise here, the WikiPedia pie definition also clearly includes hamantash — as far as I can tell. You and I differ on "common sense" and also on reading the English language. ( ( Haim Berman 07:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC) ) )

[outdent]Hamantashen are not prepared in a pastry-lined pan - they are made by taking balls of dough and flattening them out into circles, then filling them with jelly or whatever. Pies are made to fill the pan or the container within which it is being made. There is a clear difference - I can try to build consensus by polling other Wikipedians to see if they agree, if you want, but your argument is surprising to me, frankly. --DLand^TALK 13:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Definitely not a pie. (I can't say whether it is a cookie or not—the word loses its meaning on its way to the Eastern side of the Atlantic.)--Redaktor 16:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I first must apologize as I may have mis-interpreted the dictionary-definition which you had quoted for pie. You have now convinced me that the Random House Unabridged Dictionary definition of pie does exclude hamantash — as well as pizza and pasty perhaps — whereas I'm certain these should all be considered pies. A poll of WikiPedians would be welcome. Perhaps this discussion should move to Talk:Pie? — Haim Berman 08:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your two counter-examples: 1. A pizza is certainly not a pie in the standard sense - it is sometimes called a "pizza pie" because it resembles a pie in some respects, e.g. it is round, it has a crust on the bottom and on the sides - I don't think that anyone would reasonably equate a pizza with, say, an apple pie. 2. A pasty is indeed a pie, and it does fall within the definition, as it is made in a "pastry case" according to the Wikipedia article. Also, please don't reformat the page with extra spaces - that is not the accepted style for talk pages. We use indents to distinguish between different speakers. --DLand^TALK 16:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)