Talk:Haloperidol

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Now, the article on Haloperidol has been completely revised and extended. Please check carefully for errors and communicate them. Thanks for your help!

Contents

[edit] See also

Ombudsman (talk · contribs) inserted a few articles for "see also": Biological psychiatry, New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, Psychiatric survivors movement.

I removed these links because they do not relate directly to haloperidol. Ombudsman reinserted them with the edit comment: "restore see also section; haldol has been central to the arsenal of 'treatments' used against persons labeled w/ pseudoscientific 'diagnoses'; article is an example of whitewashing"[1].

Ombudsman has a history of pushing his POV by inserting "see also"s to articles with content have he favours. The edit summary reveals the antipsychiatry POV. I encourage Ombudsman to improve this page with NPOV content, such as substantiation of the assertion that this article is "whitewashing" and a source for the assertion that psychiatric diagnoses are "pseudoscientific". JFW | T@lk 14:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] contradiction

It seems like 'devoid of any psychological dependence' and 'rebound into mania' are contradictions, unless there is a clear defined, referenced differentiation between their 'physical' and 'psychological' sources. Clarification? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.105.118.109 (talk • contribs) .

I think, when looked at informally, the intent of the two terms is fairly obvious: Haloperidol is not 'addictive' in the colloquial sense (not in the way that benzodiazepines are), but may cause clinical deterioration upon abrupt cessation. Perhaps the language could be cleaned up a bit, though. --Bk0 (Talk) 17:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Rebound is being used incorrectly. The term here is more appropriately "relapse." Rebound is a rapid onset of symptoms due to the abrupt discontinuation of a drug. Relapse is the re-emergence of underlying disease due to lapse of treatment. Patients may relapse into psychosis or acute mania if anti-psychotic medication is withdrawn.

There seems to be another contradiction within the artical, it supposedly states that this drug will surpress hullciations caused by PCP, however i was under the impression that PCP was a dissasociative drug and therefore Haloperidol would be uneffective, however I am not an expert and therefore did not feel i had the right to change anything.

[edit] anticholinergic effects

I will review this topic further before making any changes, but I am fairly sure that hypertension, as opposed to hypotension would result from the use of anticholinergic agents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afromcbenny (talk • contribs) 07:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Breast feeding

Very good article. Perhaps it would be useful to provide some additional information on the use of haloperidol in lactating mothers. The authoritative website http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~ox1B0U:1 comments: "...Limited information indicates that maternal doses of haloperidol up to 10 mg/day produce low levels in milk and do not affect the breastfed infant. Very limited long-term follow-up data indicate no adverse developmental effects when haloperidol is used alone. However, combinations of antipsychotic agents can negatively affect development. Monitor the infant for developmental milestones, especially if other antipsychotics are used concurrently."

Since the dose used seems to clearly influence the degree of potential effects, this issue warrants discussion, in my opinion.

Thank you,

146.155.244.174 15:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yellow phlegm

I removed the discussion of yellow phlegm [2]. I'm not aware of yellow phlegm as being a mechanism of elimination for haloperidol, as it is metabolized in the liver and eliminated in the urine and stool. Andrew73 14:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fork to Haloperidol - Adverse Effects

I've removed this fork, as it the content is already covered in the main article. Andrew73 14:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources?

Oddly enough, this article is completely without references for all the information presented. As far as I can see, this could all be nonsense. Actually, I'm mistaken, the article has 3 citations to sources in German.. this is unacceptable for an english Wiki entry.. please review Verifiability. I'm going to put an unreferenced tag on it, perhaps someone can solve this issue. Not that I have any qualms with the information, but it is effectively useless unsourced.

its an article mainly taliored by the pharma Janssen or else Johnson & Johnson, and maintained by them or their interests, and a few shrinks they pay or that are on their side. and i actually put in the referenced link to this drug used to torture political dissidents, which is true, and it was the only thing referenced in this article just about, but they removed it of course!!!!! i also put linked stuff from a harvard physician about this drug, that has a negative opinion, fully referenced, and that was removed too, but they dont remove the unreferenced drug company info!!! 129.194.8.73 (talk) 15:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Torture, Punishment, Interrogation

well i have added one to anna politkovskayas book, as u begin to see this is not quite what y'all thought it was...reports are now coming in from europe and the united states as to incidents as well in those areas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.143.64 (talk • contribs) 00:51, 24 December 2007

Your edits reverted, not least for being too eager and so edits become silly or uncoinstructive. As examples:
  • Stating drug "was used in the 20th and 21st centuries on planet earth" - we can assume for all drugs that default is planet Earth rather than Zog.
  • You delete out unreferenced point that used "for treating psychiatric emergency situations" which is true that it is generally so considered useful. Yet your ediut makes wild claim for misuse of the drug by many countries, yet only single source given for its use in Russia.
  • The example given of "given by the soviet regime to Russian dissenters of the 1968 suppression of the Czech uprising" would only only support abuse with this drug in the 20th centurary rather than "the 20th and 21st centuries".
  • Please no not make legal threats as per this edit summary
David Ruben Talk 04:52, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

the legal references are not to wikipedia users, they are to researchers and physicians that might be involved in malpractice and incompetence lawsuits, although it is certainly a possibility that wikipedia editors may be invoved in a lawsuit over this one, yet their anonymity makes that unlikely, but anyways thats not at all what was meant, it was denoting, and not on the page, but on the editting notes, that lawsuits have been filed over this drug and giving editors a heads up to that, and that researchers and physicians defending it may be involved in suits, and actually is encouraging wikipedia editors to start assembling the notes from the scientific research as to who exactly is saying what about this compound, to put them on the record so everyone can see who they are and what their names are!

as to it, "was used in the 20th and 21st centuries on planet earth", well thats entirely factual, some people when writing encyclopedias think in terms of the bigger picture, and have a realization at this point multiple planets are in the picture for people, and that earth is just one of their planets, and also putting this matter in perspective for future readers, its time to realize that the 21st century was one of colonization off of planet earth, with hundreds of people now sent into space, multiple plans from many lands to settle and put bases on planets, multiple installations in space, hordes of sattelites, multiple rovers & "other vehicles" now exploring and doing geological research on other planets, i suppose some editors are looking further ahead than others and anticipate future edits that will undoubtedly say "haldol was used in the 20th and 21st centuries on planet earth", and this looking ahead eliminates wasted edits. And yes one could look much further ahead, but im just coming at it with a 21st century perspective, obviouly if u read that sentence its from an educated present perspective

anyways everything in this article is entirely unreferenced, it could all be deleted on those grounds, except for this part about its use as a torture, interrogation, and punishment device, which is factual and documented and referenced, the rest is unreferenced and reads like an advertisement for a pharmaceutical company, i will leave it for now, but encourage wikipedia editors to start assembling the names of who said these things about it, lets get them and their names on the record, i may start a policy of deleting sentence by sentence, so someone has to come in and reference it to who from the research advocates whichever particular fact, wikipedia is an anonymous tool so editors themselves are safeguarded against lawsuits, and anyways no threat was made to editors so there is no need to get paranoid about it83.79.143.64 (talk) 11:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] use in torture

as to a deletion of something, that it seems has some refs, well i may put it back in, i just noticed its referenced to a few things, but im somewhat sceptical with the summarization from source "The controversy over "chemical restraint" in acute care psychiatry" then leading to a wikipedia paraphrase of "Haloperidol was considered indispensable for treating psychiatric emergency situations" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.78.141.149 (talk) 15:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


These edits constitute a third revert in just over 24hrs. They are poorly phrased and 83.78.141.149 (talk · contribs) justification for galaxy-wide future-proofed style is both daft and detracts from what might be a valid points about the drug being misused. So problems with the edits:
  • "Haloperidol was used in the 20th and 21st centuries", the ref given is for actions in 1968, that is not the 21st Century.
  • "by several countries", yet the single ref given applies only to Russia
  • citation details for Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews - the reference details are as given by PubMed using standard abbreviation for the journal name, and had given a link to the full paper, yet this is repeatedly reverted to just web link to the abstract - this diminishing of access to full reference is therefore being disruptive.
  • Repeated removing of role of Haloperiodol in emergencies - ref provided confirms both that it was felt useful drug and that the number one drug advocated for such a role back in 1986. Since various consensus statements on its role have shown a decline in its role with newer drugs perhaps taking prime position. To repeatedly delete this because of your own personal views against this drug, therefore is in breach of WP:NPOV.
  • Your deletions have left the comment re WHO status as an indented text box.
  • "Opponents, Toxicity, Nerve Damage " section is a minority viewpoint and not one held by majority of medical community. As such WP:UNDUE applies in not promoting a minority viewpoint. Indeed I suspect the number of psychiatrists who are likewise so opposed to this drug may well be so small as to constitute a trivial minority and one "should not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views, and may not include tiny-minority views at all"(WP:WEIGHT)
  • "Use as a Human Torture Device" - where to begin ? As per previous thread postings, wikipedia may safely be assumed to apply to humans and we need not concern ourselves with post-humans or aliens having to later understand an ancient text, it is not accepted as inevitably being a torture (vs say thumbscrew) although of course it is open to misuse, and finally it is not a device but a medicine.
  • Anna Politkovskaya ref is given as a footnote in the leadin, to then also use as a reference for the whole article just seems further example of POV pushing on this point.
I try to personally follow WP:1RR, so will step back for now to allow others to consider the repeated edits and my above & previous points raised. David Ruben Talk 20:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
No objections or points raised by other editors re above for 3 days now since another admin semiprotected page re "Protected Haloperidol: Edit-warring and POV-pushing, dynamic IP". So I've been bold and reverted article to Casliber's. David Ruben Talk 12:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not outperformed in the treatment of positive symptoms by 2nd gen? Source?

"The effectiveness of haloperidol against positive symptoms has not been outperformed by newer antipsychotics."

Well, well. This should be sourced. Though therapeutic superiority in psychopharmacology is in general hard to prove, in my experience, clozapine specifically would be a good candidate to outperform haloperidol in antipsychotic effectiveness, even in positive symptoms.--84.163.105.77 (talk) 02:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Good pickup - Yes I agree, I think what it is meant to say is clozapine best and all others more or less as effective as each other. Will get to it later. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Haloperidol in Putin's Russia

I searched for "haloperidol" and "haldol" inside the book Putin's Russia using Google and found no hits. So I remove the sentence puprportedly based on that book. Per WP guidelines to show the citation is real, if you want to restore it, I ask you to quote here a full paragraph mentioning haloperidol. Paul Gene (talk) 11:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

the book is not online, go to a major bookstore, grab the book, i told u the pages, and it is written clearly in it, i have seen the book, and read that part, until u check and find otherwise, u cant delete based on a "google search", books are not entered into the internet! u have to look at the book itself

i am restoring, and i will also do as u say, and when i get a chance here today or tomorrow, ill also add several quoted lines concerning this drug from that book to expand this further beyond what i have written!!! in fact mrs politkovskaya mentions several accounts, more than one, of situations where this drug was used to torture 129.132.128.136 (talk) 16:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

If you want to add descriptions from "high-functioning patients" of what it feels like to be on haldol, you need not use extremist or self-published sources. You can go to the peer-reviewed literature on Tourette syndrome. If that book can't even spell tics correctly, that's a concern. If you want to add this info about Haldol, please base it on reliable sources: there are plenty of credible accounts of what Haldol feels like from the TS literature. Please use reliable sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

For example, discussion of the intolerable side effects for most people using haldol, even at low doses, can be found at:

There is no need to resort to sources like Breggin or other obscure publications. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, if you want to read an interesting narrative, anecdotal description of the tradeoffs involved in using Haldol for Tourette's, Oliver Sacks has a story entitled "Witty Ticcy Ray", (or something along those lines - it's been awhile). Probably not appropriate for this article, but interesting reading. MastCell Talk 18:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't think Oliver Sacks' ramblings about TS are appropriate anywhere except his own article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:29, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure, fair enough. Apologies for getting off-topic. MastCell Talk 18:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
That's OK, you can ignore my pet peeves. Anyway, the story of Ray the drummer is in The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat I believe, but Sacks tends to enjoy writing about the extreme, uncommon, sensational and comorbids rather than TS. Remember, we're trying to get away from sources like Breggin. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
its not an "extremist" source im gonna use, im using a source from journalist with these awards
   * 2001: Prize of the Russian Union of Journalists
   * 2001: Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism
   * 2002: PEN American Center Freedom to Write Award
   * 2002: International Women's Media Foundation Courage in Journalism Award
   * 2003: Lettre Ulysses Award
   * 2003: Hermann Kesten Medal
   * 2004: Olof Palme Prize (shared with Lyudmila Alekseyeva and Sergei Kovalev)
   * 2005: Prize for the Freedom and Future of the Media
   * 2006: International Journalism Award named after Tiziano Terzani
   * 2007: UNESCO/Guillermo Cano World Press Freedom Prize (awarded posthumously for the first time)[62]
   * 2007: National Press Club/John Aubuchon Freedom of the Press Award (posthumous)
   * 2007 Democracy Award to Spotlight Press Freedom by the National Endowment for Democracy, [4]

is that extremist??? no this is used to torture peopel with, she writes it clearly... and as requested per talk page, i just went to major book store, and copied some phrases from her book, i'm not sure how much longer y'all can keep trying to keep this out, but its all true, haloperidol is used to torture with, and so now i'll go further as "paul gene" requested, and put some excerpts too, i guess in a whole new section too, as im not just after info about what this drug/nerve poison feels like, no we also should include info about its use to torture people with too... and so i add more and not just my paraphrase as before! 129.132.128.136 (talk) 19:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, perhaps you can find some article about Putin's methods of torture in Russia and add it there. Sacks has awards, too; that doesn't make him a credible source of medical information via his fictional books. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

its not Putin that uses this, the russians used this in 1960s 1970s...maybe 80s...the book is documentary book...and by the way, i feel something nasty from some of these editors, something dirty, something unpleasant, that keep trying to block this info for the people... but i'll leave it at that, so go ahead...keep trying to find excuses to block it out, lets get y'all on record 129.132.128.136 (talk) 19:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

As I already said above, if you want to discuss serious adverse affects associated with the legitimate use of Haldol, that can be done with/from the reliable sources I gave you. I'm not trying to keep that info out; on the contrary, I've given you good sources for it. Perhaps you're looking for an article on Russian torture methods or something else. In a medical article, when we have scholarly sources describing adverse effects, we don't need to use journalist sources related to improper use of medications. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
(ec) Try Punitive psychiatry in the Soviet Union. The next inappropriate post here - meaning ones that involve personal attacks, implications of sinister motives, and a general focus on editors rather than content - is going to be removed and your IP blocked temporarily. MastCell Talk 19:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I, personally, was tortured by the deconate within the U.S. .... And, the deconate was not given to me because of "noncompliance" of any sort. This drug is akkin to "chemical shock" treatment and should be banned within the U.S.. The fact that some psychiatrists are still using it brings into question the effectiveness of the whole profession. This drug is a deniable method of torture and should be controlled with stricter regulations then cocaine. The temptation for bad people to use this drug in order to mimic Parkinsons Disease is too great to just plainly ignore. I know I can't say these things on the front page of this article. The fact that it took until 1984 to legalize its use within the U.S. because of side effects should tip people off just how dangerous this drug is. It would be more properly classified as a poison. If you are a medical professional considering the use of this drug I would like you to remember "Do no harm". Not to mention its use for torture at all, is criminally negligent since I myself was tortured with it here, within the U.S., for three years 24/7. But, since it was done in a deniable manner, I will never obtain the justice that torture deserves. Please.. please.. include the fact that it has been used in that manner somehow. Thank you. Planet Ceres 69.151.28.45 (talk) 17:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC) This drug is the Auschwitz of the mentally ill. And yet, this article reads like it was supplied by drug companies. This is the shame of Wikipedia 69.151.28.45 (talk) 18:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)