Talk:Half Dome

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Contents

[edit] How many routes?

I revised the text to indicate their are routes on other faces. - Ratagonia

actually there are at least 3 ways to climb half dome; there is an approach up the southwest face called "snake dike". see http://www.supertopo.com/rockclimbing/route.html?r=yohasnak

There are over 22 rock-climbing routes up Half Dome, including Snake Dike (which is a fine climb). Ratagonia 04:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too many photos?

Given its short length, doesn't it seem that 8 photos are too much for this article? How do people feel about creating a page for Half Dome over at Commons, moving the photos (except for the infobox one) over there, and then providing a link to that page? -- hike395 04:56, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Or too little text? There's quite a few nice photos, and not much text. If people want to add more (relevant) text, it would be great. Ratagonia 23:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

8 photos?!?!?! There are only 5! not too many. Reywas92 12:50, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Note that I moved the photos over to Commons back in July. More photos have crept in since. hike395 22:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] When was Half Dome formed?

The article has a red link to "Tenaya Glacier"; would be nice to mention when it's estimated that Half Dome fractured. Was this 40,000 or 400,000 years ago? Tempshill 18:11, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sierra logo

The mountain peak was used as inspiration to Sierra Entertainment's logo. Shandris 22:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe, but that looks a lot more like Matterhorn. I removed this reference, but added the Sierra Club, which has a clear rendition of Half Dome in it's logo. Ratagonia 23:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The logo is very stylized these days, removing the distinctiveness of it being Half Dome. (Sort of like how the Pizza Hut logo is now slanted relative to its original appearance) If you look back at the logo in the 80s and early 90s, you'll clearly see that it's Half Dome. Not to mention that they used to manufacture disks with a photo of Half Dome on the label and the creators of the Space Quest series once posed in front of it with a mention of how they were standing in front of the mountain used as the logo. See http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/SQ1VGA/sq4vga10z.png for an example of the logo from an early 90's Sierra game. 72.192.237.134 01:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC) Ismail

[edit] Danger

I think the phrase "turned back from intimidation" over "turned back due to fear" is a bit more accurate, to reflect the implicit risk. I did the hike a few days ago and a person fell to their death the previous day (Nov 8th). I also disagree that gloves would be recommended.

I cannot find any reference in the newpapers (via google) or on the NPS Morning Report for a fatality off Half Dome. You sure? I have never heard of a death on the cable route. Have heard of people getting hit by lightening on top (no big surprise). Source? Ratagonia 20:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. It has made its way to the Morning Report. As far as I know, this is the first death of this type on the Cable Route (but I don't know much). Being in the world is dangerous. Take out the glove reference if you disagree; I had never heard of it being recommended, and am not sure it would provide additional safety. Ratagonia 19:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC) Correct. You do not need gloves and leaving them on the mountain is nothing else than litering. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.60.12.58 (talk) 02:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe there were two other deaths earlier this year, one in March and one in May before the cables were up.

[edit] Gloves recommended?

A recommendation requires a citation. Anyone have a citation. I am rather sure that the NPS does not provide gloves, so I took out the reference to gloves at the base of the cable route. In general, some citations in this article would start to bring it up to wiki standards. Ratagonia 17:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The recommendation to use gloves is widespread, so I'm sure we can find a source. The pile of gloves at the base is most likely provided by hikers themselves, but its existence is factual. Whterht we can find a reliable source for it is unknown. - ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Good job finding a source for the pile of gloves. I changes that to "sometimes", as "usually" might be too optimistic, and is not supported by the source. A recommendation from the NPS would be best, but from a reputable guidebook or guide web page would also work. Ratagonia 05:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Using Google I found dozens of sites which mention the gloves, but most were forums or self-published sites. While Salon isn't known for its coverage of the Sierra Nevada, it's generally reliable. Certainly the more sources we can bring in the better. - ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
http://www.yosemite.org/newsroom/clips2006/september/092006.html implies the gloves are consistently there, and among every hiker I've talked to, there's never been a situation where the gloves haven't been there, even when the cables are down early in the season (there was a quite sizable pile this past weekend). Also, technically speaking, when the cables are down you're not allowed to climb.. I don't know if this should be included or not, but I believe it is posted somewhere along the trail. There have also been two recent deaths on the cables, I think when they were down. It was in a local-ish paper... maybe Modesto? 128.12.82.99 19:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks - added citation to the actual article in the Fresno Bee, rather than the copy on Yosemite.org. Fresno Bee being a better source than Salon, in regard to Yosemite. Ratagonia 02:36, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Advice Edits

I removed all edits by Jpowell2, since they were primarily generic hiking advice. I believe the fountain below vernal falls is the last place for water, but I don't have a citation - I moved that bit further up from where it was at the end, but if someone could cite it that would be great. The bit about the trailhead could be interesting, but I couldn't really follow it, and it was run together with other inappropriate material. 71.232.45.29 22:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The glove pile is gone, at least as of 7/14 - signs now tell hikers to pack out their gloves rather than leave them for others. If you want to donate your gloves, ask hikers coming up to the cables if they want them.

[edit] Sourcing Statements - Advice about going outside the cables

Statements (advice) about the cable routes (going outside, "easy" without the cables up) may or may not be 'true' - but they certainly need to be sourced. Ratagonia 00:20, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Ratagonia: the statement he removed is certainly POV (and in fact, may lead to people accidently killing themselves). Needs to be sourced: who said this? hike395 08:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Anon editor is saying that Half Dome is class 3 with the cables down, and recommends leaving the cable. This contradicts what I know of the route (from my memory of Secor), which is class 5 when you leave the cables (supported by [1]). Recommending that people leave the cables without protection seems homicidal: this can only be left in the article with a very reliable source.
With the cables down, it may still be class 3, but for a non-reliable source that catalogs the problems of climbing when the cables are down, see [2]. hike395 06:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Summit Post [3])is a reliable source. It recommends climbing Half Dome with cables down. "1. Go before or after the cables are put up (Before mid-May or after mid-October). The cables are still usable. Just pull yourself up with one of the cables." So it still is a class 3 walk, independent of cables up or down.

At the end it is everyones decision: lining up or walking outside the cables. Both is possible and both is done. Climbing in a long line inside the cables could be more dangerous, particularly if you consider that more than 50% of the "climbers" are far away from sufficiant training and equipment. This people are the real danger on Half Dome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.60.12.58 (talk) 00:31, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

It's enough to say that it is "possible". We shouldn't make any recommendations. The safety is dubious - someone died this year climbing outside the cables. - ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Summit Post is a great thing, but it is essentially a wiki and does not meet the requirements of being a reliable source ( see WP:RS ). So, NO! Ratagonia 03:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The anon appears to confuse "grade" and "class" in his edits. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, yes: very different --- see climbing grade. Going off on a class 5 climb without any equipment will kill you. hike395 05:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Number of deaths: conflicting/missing sources

First of all, the current source (7) for the number of deaths claim is unavailable. The current Wiki article states that:

  • "From 1971 through August 2007, there have been nine fatal falls from the cables, three in 2007..."

The "9 fatal, 3 in 2007" claim is strangely similar to (but inconsistent with) the claim made here:

  • "Since 1971 there have been nine falls, including Nohara, but only three of them were fatal, all within the past year."

There seems to be some confusion as to the correct number. A third figure is given on this page. The page mentions a book, "Off the Wall: Death in Yosemite", which apparently documents all deaths in Yosemite. I don't have access to this book, but if someone does they should use it as a reference. If nothing authoritative is found soon, I suggest we remove the death claims.Matt Gerber (talk) 23:14, 19 December 2007 (UTC)