Talk:Hal Gardner/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 This page is not encyclopedic 2 Palmer's first opponent? 3 President Hal Garner 4 Mediation Section 5 Successor as VP?

This page is not encyclopedic

On the TV series 24, last we saw Gardner was still VP. But the article is written on the assumption that Gardner becomes President soon after the events of the season 5 finale. That's just speculation, and does not belong in an encyclopedia. For example, the succession box currently says that Gardner serves "at least 1 year" as President. Where does that come from? We don't know that he will be President at all, much less that he will serve at least a year. He might die two months after being sworn in. Or he might die before being sworn in. We just don't know. Anyone working on this page should read WP:WAF; this page needs to be rewritten so that it draws on and cites secondary sources, and is written from an out-of-universe perspective. --Mathew5000 02:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Uhhh, yeah we do. Did you even watch the last Episode? Bill states that Hal Gardner "will be sworn in as President". Gordon even confirmed it, but said they were considering casting a new President to suceed Gardner.

No, that isn't what he says. He says "In any event, we can expect Hal Gardner to be sworn in as President soon."[1]. But that isn't even the point; for purposes of the series it is still 7:00 AM -- time hasn't moved since the season finale ended. Even if they had already scheduled his swearing in by the time the episode ended (which they had not), it hasn't happened yet: Hal Gardner might drop dead before being sworn in as President.--Mathew5000 18:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you listening to a thing I'm saying? That was the producers way of telling the audience who the next President is. If that was not enough for you, HOWARD GORDON STATED THAT HE WOULD BE THE PRESIDENT INBETWEEN SEASONS 5 AND 6, BUT THEY WERE CASTING A JFK TYPE PRESIDENT TO REPLACE HIM. Your words go against one of the writers of 24, therefore claims such as yours are not valid.

Calm down, no need for all-caps. Where did Howard Gordon say that? I wouldn't object to information about what Howard Gordon said being placed in the text of the article with a proper citation, but I still think it would be wrong to refer to Gardner as if the character had already been made President, particularly in an infobox.--Mathew5000 15:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It is e-online, some girl named Kristen did the interview. I'll find it, and then add it to the article. BTW, I am restoring the political affiliation. Based on Day 1/3, and the fact that Jude confirms on 24 inside that the Logan administration is Republican is more than enough.

There is an interview that is going to be a special feature on the dvd box set with Howard Gordon about Hal Grdner becoming president and other events on the show such as Jack being recaptured and a corrupt president. Anyway as the actual predient is under arrest then Gardner is at least acting president.Lucy-marie 22:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

This article contains pure speculation. He's never referenced as President, nor is it stated outright. It violates Wikipedia standards by doing so, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. The references to him becoming president should be swiftly removed until January (where we'd actually know what has happened). Radagast83 19:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

This page and Charles Logan might benefit from mediation. --Mathew5000 19:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

For the love of f*****g g*d, someone PLEASE initiate the mediation on both pages

Palmer's first opponent?

Is there any actual source on the statement that Gardner was the opponent in Palmer's first election?

No there isn't. Governor Hodges ran against Palmer in the Democratic Primaries (according to the Subcommittee book & Novick's first comment to hearing about the blackmail of Keith in Day I) and President Barnes (of Veto Power) most likely ran for re-election and lost to Palmer in the General election, though that's not confirmed.

President Hal Garner

"Hal Gardner is 24's fourth President, and the second to be sworn in through the 25th Amendment."

If you include Jim Prescott than the tally should be five presidents and three through the 25th Ammendment"

Uh..no! The action was anulled. That means it is as if it never took place. Doesn't count.---RJ

Same here. Prescott may have been "Acting President" twice, once in Day II, and once in 24: The Game, but since he never fully replaced Palmer, he remains "Acting President."

Just curious, but where in the series did they reference (or better yet, show) Hal Garner as President instead of just as Vice President? May I suggest Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. I'm gonna revert those changes, as it is not stated in the series or on the official website at all. This is wikipedia, we don't take part in Original Research. If he's actually been officially called President, please include sources into the article and leave the fancruft out. Radagast83 04:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

And please, if you're going to edit the page, please don't leave incomplete sentences such as: "Gardner becomes President, he would be 24's fourth on-screen President", it just doesn't make sense. Radagast83 04:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

It has allready been agreed by the previous discussion of this page on weather the page was encyclopedic. it was agreed by concensus that he was the president.--Lucy-marie 09:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Which discussion? The one that's have a page above this one? There are only claims to this without any attribution. Like I've said, if Howard Gordon has said this, it souldn't be hard to source it. It would end this issue once and for all. The DVD set is not out yet, so saying that a special feature will be evidence only works if you're actually working on it, as no one else has seen this. So I say again, if he's actually President, there should be valid sources to easily answer this once and for all. Radagast83 18:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Radagast83 is correct: there was no consensus. --Mathew5000 22:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Template:Spoiler Go to the 24 Insider. It confirms that Hal Gardner is the President between seasons 5/6, but will lose to a democratic challenger (WAYNE PALMER) before the start of Day 6.131.96.14.7817:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

This should not be hard for you to confirm if it's true. Attribution man, attribution (link, what 'episode'?). Just saying it was on 24 Insider isn't really proof, and it's not OUR job to blindly believe what an unsigned person has posted, especially without a single source to back up what you claim. Radagast83 02:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Use your brain, here is the link, and it will take you to other sources: http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_24_Community/index.php?showtopic=9824.98.174.9504:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm still not going to do your job for you, but while you're at it, read Links normally to be avoided, specifically no. 9. Forums are generally not very good sources, especially ones you have to register to access (something I and I'm sure most people are not willing to do). If that link purportedly includes "other sources", then suggest THOSE here instead of the one you did. Radagast83 00:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Please give warning before adding spoilers you inconsiderate prick--Lucy-marie 16:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Learn to spell you mindless little witch. 24.98.174.95 02:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

It's fiction. We can't say, "Gardner is president at some point between seasons five and six, therefore Gardner is now president." There simply is no "now" in the 24 universe while the show is not airing. For example, suppose an author writes a bestselling novel where the two main characters get married at the end. Then a year later, the author appears on a television talk show and says he is planning a sequel in which you find out that the characters got divorced within a year after the events of the first novel. If Wikipedia has an article on the characters, should it say that they are "now" divorced? --Mathew5000 04:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do not re-open this can of worms can somebody please lock this discussion section.--Lucy-marie 22:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The 24 HQ (http://24fan.blogspot.com/2007/01/reporters-got-to-visit-24-set.html#comments) is reporting that Zap2it had a chance to talk about Wayne Palmer and they mention that in their heads, Logan resigned and Wayne Palmer was able to be elected RFK-style. This is more (but not FULL) evidence that Logan resigned soon after Day V and Gardner took the reigns until Wayne was elected.

That is unreliable and unsigned.--Lucy-marie 11:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank the editor who came up with the recent designation of Hal Gardner. Now, anyone wanting to know who was the most probable President between Days V & VI will know and those who have a more strict definition will be satisfied as well -- Pheon 15:05, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Mediation Section

Hello, all, I am Shadow1, the mediator currently working on this case. For the purposes of getting this issue resolved quickly, I am asking that someone please explain their point of view below, then a person on the opposite side of this dispute explain their point of view below that. I wish to work with all parties to resolve this problem, but I can't do that if users do not express their views in a brief, calm, and unbiased manner. If you have any questions or comments, you can place them here or on my talk page. Thanks! Shadow1 17:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

This article revolves around whether upon the arest of a president the vice president becomes president. This Is a crucial part of resolving this. If It Is true that upon arrest them the vice president dose become president then Hal Gardner becomes president. If this Is not the case then Hal gardner dose not become president.--Lucy-marie 21:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• The issue is whether or not the show implicitly states that Hal Garner is the next POTUS on screen, it doesn't. For all we know, the next season could take place a month from now (with Logan, the current president in the show, still in office or having him somehow escape justice alltogether). It is that we just don't know specifically what happened to the character after the credits rolled. We won't know until January 2006 or whenever the Producers spill the beans before then. References to him possibly becoming president in the article (which already exist in there now) is good enough in my opinion for the time being. Radagast83 01:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Now, as a fellow 24 viewer, I can understand where you guys/girls are coming from. Now, in my opinion, if it was never actually shown in the last show that Hal Gardner would become president, then he didn't. It's probably the case that he will become president, but if it was never actually revealed in the show, then he didn't become president for that season. Why don't we just leave him as vice-president for now, then add him as "speculated president" for the period between the 5 and 6 seasons? It may have been stated that Gardner would succeed Logan, but since there was no swearing-in ceremony shown, this seems the best course of action. Just my thoughts. Shadow1 11:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. In the timeline of 24 we have not seen this character as president, so labelling him as so would be speculation that in no way could be verified. It really is a simple and quite silly issue. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 21:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as how there isn't any more discussion, is it safe for me to say that the issue has been resolved? Shadow1 10:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it has been resolved, yes. What happens now? Radagast83 17:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I am happy we came to a speedy civilised conclusion--Lucy-marie 19:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

If I may, there is another thing to consider. The world of 24 follows the rules of the United States Constitution, which state, under the 25th Amendment, that the Vice President will become President upon the death, resignation, or incapacitation of the President. Whel a lot was not made clear at the end of Season 5, what was made clear was that Charles Logan would be unable to continue as President. So even though we don't know the specifics of how he becomes President, or if he will appear at all during Season 6, we do know that he will become President in some fashion. So why not say so? 68.175.28.95 05:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Successor as VP?

Since Gardner's Presidency is entirely offscreen and there was no on-screen mention of appointing a new VP to succeed him, putting Noah Daniels in the box as successor to Gardner is speculation/guesswork at best. Without anything explicit showing that he was the next VP before Wayne Palmer's election, I'm adjusting the box accordingly. 147.70.242.40 20:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)